5624 replies to this topic

[Classic Team]

From what I've read it may even do N64, Saturn, or even Dreamcast (Although I dont think Dreamcast will run full speed, otherwise it would be the coolest thing on the planet.) But the problem with these are are variant. The N64 takes a considerable amount of cpu power, and alot of people have trouble with creating Saturn emus. But you never know...

And just to comment on the creators post, You do have some valad points. But the pros overcome the Cons of this system, and hopfuly people will look into the future of gaming - weather it come by something as small as the craiginator, to our computers becoming our consoles through internet connections.

anyhow...

Edited by Classic Team, 10 November 2007 - 03:20 AM.

[saehn]

No need for all the attitude. Christo was just expressing his thoughts. If there's one thing this forum can obviously handle, it's open expressions of opinion.

He doesn't have anything especially negative to say about Craig's machine, he's just balking at the price. Petty economic childishness aside, it's a rather expensive toy by US standards.

No one doubts that it will be impressive once it's released, but for now many of us just wonder how it's going to turn out from a business perspective. All that we have to compare it to is the GP2X with its price range and capabilities.

Interesting to watch, to be certain. Although 3000+ posts of uber-goober speculation is a bit silly.

[God Ginrai]

Saturn emulation maybe

I note very well the maybe, but seriously: do you think this might actually be a possibility, or something closer to, say, how PSX currently is on the GP2x?

Saturn would be out of this world (Guardian Heroes is amazing, and Nights would look very pretty indeed on a small screen), but I was under the impression that even though the OMAP eats each individual chip in the Saturn for breakfast, timing them all together is a nightmare that results in a need for modern machines.

I don't see Saturn being very probable even at the speeds the GP2X does the PSX. Also, due to that fact, I foresee most devs will probably treat the topic of porting a Saturn emu like most GP2X devs treat the topic of porting an N64 emu.

-God Ginrai

[Sphinxter]

I don't think the price matching a good console is out of line at all and may actually help it, the marketing power of the status symbol is pretty strong stuff, For instance I don't mind paying extra every other year for tear down and inspection and a small ransom for a tuneup, it's a porsche 911 and I never even asked how much extra it would be, nice being the only one in my neighborhood, can't even explain the hold it has over me. Craigs price makes me want it more but it's got to be all that, like the 911 you should not be left wanting. Sharper image might give you retail space access. Someone has to own the high end of the market.

[Exophase]

Saturn emulation maybe

I note very well the maybe, but seriously: do you think this might actually be a possibility, or something closer to, say, how PSX currently is on the GP2x?

Saturn would be out of this world (Guardian Heroes is amazing, and Nights would look very pretty indeed on a small screen), but I was under the impression that even though the OMAP eats each individual chip in the Saturn for breakfast, timing them all together is a nightmare that results in a need for modern machines.

I don't see Saturn being very probable even at the speeds the GP2X does the PSX. Also, due to that fact, I foresee most devs will probably treat the topic of porting a Saturn emu like most GP2X devs treat the topic of porting an N64 emu.

-God Ginrai

Saturn might be possible in some capacity with super optimization and 1GHz+ CPU, at least for some games anyway. It's hardly a lock and the biggest problem is getting someone to actually try it. I don't think it's likely we'll even see that, but just objectively thinking this is what I think about it.

Saturn does have a lot of CPUs, it's true, and that takes a toll. However with strong idle loop elimination (with hard patching if necessary) we could see a lot of that minimized. The main SH2 should be able to run well with dynarec, and I think doing two to three address optimization would be interesting. The same goes for the slave SH2 and the SH1 (can you believe 3 20+MHz similar CPUs? But the SH1 is probably not used much, I think it's for video decoding). Same dynarec core should be used for all of those.

VDP1 can be done in hardware but VDP2 is scary. Frameskip might have to be brought in.

SCU sounds kinda scary too, I'm hoping that integer NEON could be used, along with another recompiler. The 68k isn't a big deal, probably best to use a fast interpreter like Cyclone. Sound DSP is not programmable like the main DSP, so hopefully some heavy optimizations can go its way. I don't think SMPC is a real processor, just a system control unit that's issued commands externally.

I think that if people focused on something like this the same way PCSX2 optimization has been focused on it could be done. Not likely but possible.

EDIT: SH1 is not programmable, it runs a CD-ROM driver in ROM, so it doesn't have to be emulated. SMPC is similar to that.

Edited by Exophase, 10 November 2007 - 07:42 AM.

[kingbuzzo]

the NEO GEO was really expensive when it was released, was superior to everything and had a lifetime of over 15 years.

it is the cutting edge, expect to pay for it if you plan to be one of the first to experience it.
Nothing like this has ever been done, and I for one am VERY excited.

[zaffercharles]

Yes, it is a pity that the price is inflated for americans but could any of you guys imagine dealing with that on every single thing you bought over here? look at PS3- it was almost twice the price over here at launch.
There really is only one thing for it, see what it can do and decide then. If all you're interested in is what the gp2x can already do, sure aside from doing it all fullspeed (probs) there won't be much point in you buying it considering the price.
But it seems to me it is something of a different class and not just in terms of power.

There are a fair few people out there that like the idea of gp2x but didn't want to 'bear with it' looking back on all the faults or drawbacks that didn't need to be there with a little more development and/or by listening to feedback. If it had been.. say 20% more powerful OR with a decent dpad I'd have bought one. Fullspeed 2d would have sold even more gp2x I'm sure. Good as it is, it wasn't a huge step up from gp32 in capability and I was hoping it would be more than it was. I've been watching and waiting for the last... 4 years??

Bottom line is, this craiginator thing is just what I was dreaming of when I heard about first gp32 then gp2x, a reasonably paced and priced mini-pc with proper gaming controls as well as the usual touch/keyboard. That will do 2d emulation, play media and have some pda use perfectly. If you have to take the 3d capability alongside that well it'll just end up a bonus when something's made for it

am I the only one that is interested in the other uses than games? maybe I am, considering most you guys'll have at least one gadget that already does that job. Think of all the ones like me without any mobile devices that can be drawn towards this through both the gaming and the practical side of it. (not in america maybe)


I hope everyone embraces it when it's here, I fully understand your point that to you there may be little benefit for the price but.. that's the way it goes when you're already on the bandwagon and like where you are I guess

Anyway the gp2x will still do what it's always done, maybe a little more yet so don't worry about it.

[b_o_b]

Initially this device would have been launched much sooner and lower priced. It is due to the community (and especially developers) that the device has become what it is now (on paper that is).

I would have been happy with a lot less. A combination of touchscreen / rtc /wifi and keyboard with a dpad + the gp32x.com devs makes me a guaranteed costumer. Who cares about the rest
The devs decided they need more then just that, and Craig has listened to their advise. He knows this will only succeed it the devs will join his effort. How non-GPH I guess, in retrospect, that's a very good choice and I'm sure the devs will make this new machine the best gadget on earth.

[Squidge]

And JXD 301 is clearly overrated if you ask me. People see "600MHz" and stop thinking further.

Actually, it's 500Mhz. Websites say 600Mhz, but it's got a 500Mhz chip in it. I can only assume that it was originally going to be 600Mhz.

As for saying the console is too expensive in the american market, it's the same with all electronic devices, depending on where they are built. For example, the eee pc is much cheaper over there than in the uk (I've seen websites quoting $199, compared to £199 in the UK rather than the £100 it should be if it just needed the price conversion).

[Melville]

...and if a distributor charges $20 S&H for it you're being ripped off ... S&H should be no more than $10 (and hopefully less)

I seriously doubt it could be shipped from the UK to USA for $10. At today's rate (on xe.com) $10 = £4.78, which would only just pay to ship, say, a boxed GP2X within the UK. If you want it sent to the USA at a decent speed and with insurance, I'd guess $20 would be the minimum you'd pay.

It's good to see some people willing to debate this properly BTW - it's obviously supposed to be a thread for discussing the craiginator's potential weaknesses, so all the "so don't buy it" posters have completely missed the point.

[dodgyville]

I want a successor to the gp2x as much as anybody else. But this thing sounds over the top.

All it needs to be a kickass machine:-
- some buttons
- a stick/controller (maybe two for emulation)
- a 3D chip
- a fast CPU
- 128mb+ memory
- a screen
- wifi
- SD-like cards (mini or equiv)
- USB port
- decent battery life
- no larger than the existing gp2x.

It doesn't need a keyboard. It doesn't need touchscreen.

[b_o_b]

It doesn't need a keyboard. It doesn't need touchscreen.

Of course it does, don't be silly.

[zaffercharles]

I seriously doubt it could be shipped from the UK to USA for $10. At today's rate (on xe.com) $10 = £4.78, which would only just pay to ship, say, a boxed GP2X within the UK. If you want it sent to the USA at a decent speed and with insurance, I'd guess $20 would be the minimum you'd pay.

It's good to see some people willing to debate this properly BTW - it's obviously supposed to be a thread for discussing the craiginator's potential weaknesses, so all the "so don't buy it" posters have completely missed the point.

Well what would you, or the original poster like to see from a new device? considering that we don't know the full story on its strengths yet how can we talk about its weaknesses? other than it will be expensive for some.

I said before that I would have been happy with no frameskip on all gp2x can do plus some updated mame but, opening up ps1 and 64 adds a hell of a lot of good fun 3d games for it. Being able to play my avi properly in w/s without modifying them is another bonus, as is using it for appointments and reminders, net surf etc.

Yeah, if you've already experienced most of it or parts of that on multiple other systems it's not going to be so much of a novelty but again, what would you have liked to hear about it bearing in mind that we don't even know the full finished spec, and it isn't an official 'next gen' gp2x anyway

[A_SN]

It doesn't need a keyboard. It doesn't need touchscreen.

Your short-sightedness truly is admirable. And if you don't get why I'm saying this, just think of all the things people would like to do on a hi-res screen WiFi device that they couldn't do without either a touchscreen or keyboard.

[Squidge]

It doesn't need a keyboard. It doesn't need touchscreen.

But if it did, it would appear to a greater market rather than just gaming geeks. Greater market = more sold and more applications. Better for us, and better for Craigix

I for one wouldn't mind using it for web browsing whilst sitting in front of the TV rather than just a games machine. Should be much better than buying another laptop thats smaller than a full size one (Full sized laptops are uncomfortable for simple browsing)