45 replies to this topic

[Megamixman]

Megamixman: Nope, some drivers can not be updated, I once bought a DVD drive which was not able to be re-flashed without hardware changes and it refused to burn to some CDs which were supposed to be working - The whole unit got replaced later. No, I was not thinking about the perfect device at day zero, I m developer myself so I will try to contribute with my own applications (And no, they won't be ready at releasedate neither )

That is not a driver. That is a PROM on the DVD drive because it contains a micro-controller as do most Optical and Magnetic Drives. The Pandora on the other hand only uses FLASH for its ROM. Therefore it CAN be reprogrammed. There is not a bit of software that can not be changed on the Pandora. Although things like the boot sector might be protected so that they can only be programmed via JTAG,etc. This is pretty standard on modern day flash devices where future software updates were planned.

[socket]

Yeah like he said above, that's not a driver....

And anyway, I can't believe people are so concerned about warranties and what not. I mean jeez, it's basically a community homebrew piece of equipment and shit happens. I'm almost definitely pre-ordering and will be happy with it as long as development on it continues. If something goes wrong something goes wrong... I mean, sure if your unit is DOA i'd expect it to be replaced, but having "driver issues" is quite a bizarre concern for such a device. It's basically always going to be in development and people should really understand that. Like was stated already, if you expect a perfect unit with everything working flawlessly please wait and don't buy it right away. This is a toy to tinker with.

[waffles]

I would want a warentee if say, the hinge had a defect or the pandora ridiculously overheated or some other weird failing that doesn't fall under DOA. i think a month or two is reasonable.

[Pleng]

It seems to me like it might be illegal (don't know, i'm not trading standards).

At least one very similar project to this turned out be a scam.

http://en.wikipedia..../HP_200LX#Japan

3000 x £200 = £600,000 or $1,119,863

If they were *really* planning to scam, then why would they be waiting until September to start the pre-orders?

It seems to me like it might be illegal (don't know, i'm not trading standards).

The way I think about it is as follows:

There are only 3,000 or so units going to be made. They are going to be sold over the 'net, and you can pre-order them. If all 3,000 are pre-ordered, then there are obviously going to be none available once the device is released.

3) what is the delay between batch 1 and 2?

Unknown. Batch 2 will not be ordered until batch 1 is almost out of stock I would of thought.

The way I see it is this:

The pre-ordering is due to start at the end of September, and the product is due to ship in November.

Some people in other threads are predicting sell-outs within a few days. Now I'm not 100% sure on production line-startup/buildup times but I'm pretty sure that if they *do* sell 3000 units within the first few days, they'll either increase the initial run, or immediately order a second run (using the cash generated from the sale of the first 3000).

If it takes a couple of weeks for the first batch to sell out (ie the Pandora STILL has two to three weeks to go before shipping), then I guess there'll be a couple of weeks delay between the first and second batch. But that shouldn't really be an issue as the demand is not too high.

The pre-ordering system is a very clever way of ensuring that the company always has enough capital to ensure a pretty consistent supply of Pandys. The only risk of large delays between runs is if the first batch of Pandys do not sell out (or nearly sell out) until after the pre-orders have finished and they start shipping.

[Squidge]

There is not a bit of software that can not be changed on the Pandora.

Actually, there is, but it'll never be executed under normal usage (or at least, a very small amount of it will run), so it shouldn't be a problem.

I would want a warentee if say, the hinge had a defect or the pandora ridiculously overheated or some other weird failing that doesn't fall under DOA. i think a month or two is reasonable.

'hinge defect' or 'overheating' would be faulty components or a fault during manufacturing. Both cases would be covered by 12 months minimum. However, if the overheating occured because you left it in your pants pocket and those got washed, or because you dropped it, or threw it out of a window when you couldn't beat a certain game, it might be difficult to prove manufacturing defect.

[P-J]

Faulty units will be replaced.

No need to act like they have any choice. If they sell a faulty unit, they will be bound by law to replace it.

Sale of goods act.

[Megamixman]

Actually, there is, but it'll never be executed under normal usage (or at least, a very small amount of it will run), so it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm assuming that bit has to do with the wifi chip? AFAIK, all ROM on the 3530 can be reprogrammed while active. The only exception would be if the devs set the lock bits for certain sectors such as a boot sector or failsafe de-brick boot. Even in this case, these can be reprogrammed via JTAG.

[Squidge]

I don't think the bootloader in the OMAP can be reprogrammed, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Megamixman]

I don't think the bootloader in the OMAP can be reprogrammed, but correct me if I'm wrong.

It has to be. U-boot is the pretty much the defacto now for Linux on embedded devices, but Windows CE has it's own bootloader.

[Squidge]

It has to be. U-boot is the pretty much the defacto now for Linux on embedded devices, but Windows CE has it's own bootloader.

Erm, I think your getting confused.

The start sequence is: Bootloader -> XLoader -> UBoot -> Linux.

AFAIK, only the last 3 can be updated/changed.

[waffles]

There is not a bit of software that can not be changed on the Pandora.

Actually, there is, but it'll never be executed under normal usage (or at least, a very small amount of it will run), so it shouldn't be a problem.

I would want a warentee if say, the hinge had a defect or the pandora ridiculously overheated or some other weird failing that doesn't fall under DOA. i think a month or two is reasonable.

'hinge defect' or 'overheating' would be faulty components or a fault during manufacturing. Both cases would be covered by 12 months minimum. However, if the overheating occured because you left it in your pants pocket and those got washed, or because you dropped it, or threw it out of a window when you couldn't beat a certain game, it might be difficult to prove manufacturing defect.

Bummer, guess no ghost n goblins for me.
Also, has anyone ever seen a warentee that DID cover user damage?
that would be pretty sweet.

[BenRoshi]

Personally I'm just going to wait for the first impressions and not bother preordering. That way I can hear what people think of it, make sure everything's in good shape, and then buy. You're probably worried about not pre ordering because what if the batch sells out. I say don't worry about that, because if it sells out they'll make another one. Anyways, if just 3000 people owned of of these babies, the community would probably shrivel up. So if you don't get one of the first batch and they don't make another batch, you probably aren't missing out on anything.

[SpaceNinjaDino]

Personally I'm just going to wait for the first impressions and not bother preordering. That way I can hear what people think of it, make sure everything's in good shape, and then buy. You're probably worried about not pre ordering because what if the batch sells out. I say don't worry about that, because if it sells out they'll make another one. Anyways, if just 3000 people owned of of these babies, the community would probably shrivel up. So if you don't get one of the first batch and they don't make another batch, you probably aren't missing out on anything.

While your logic is sound, I hope few people feel that way. If everyone was on the fence, then it would flop.
All I need is enough community support to get the unit running with Firefox+Flash, MAME, and Java and I'd be a happy camper. I'd be able to make my own Java apps if nothing else.

[MWeston]

While your logic is sound, I hope few people feel that way. If everyone was on the fence, then it would flop.

I tend to agree. It is a difficult situation for those who want to feel 100% secure they are getting a good product but if everyone did feel that way, then pre-orders would be low and it might make it hard to make more beyond the first 3000, maybe even put a strain on the first 3000 itself. I don't know what the exact financial requirements are from those who fund this project, but I just know I can't afford to put anything other than my engineering time into it so there is bound to be some interest in seeing a good number of pre-orders to make sure reserve cash is high.

[fusion_power]

Personally I'm just going to wait for the first impressions and not bother preordering. That way I can hear what people think of it, make sure everything's in good shape, and then buy. You're probably worried about not pre ordering because what if the batch sells out. I say don't worry about that, because if it sells out they'll make another one. Anyways, if just 3000 people owned of of these babies, the community would probably shrivel up. So if you don't get one of the first batch and they don't make another batch, you probably aren't missing out on anything.

I also will wait and see, what the first 3000 Users tell about the Pandora. We have already so many "when can I preorder" people that I doub't, the first 3000 wouldn't sell within a week.
I have no need to preorder. Useres are the best feedback a Device can have ansd usualy, the users find bugs or faulty things. I don't want to compare a Pandora with a GP2X but we all know that the GP2XX also was the uber-thing until the USERS found out, that the D-Pad is completely Crap. Well, I'm sure this will not happen with the Pandora but at the curren't time (AUGUST!) we don't even have seen a final D-Pad or a final Keyboard or at least a Video that shows someone who plays directly with Pandora-Controlls and can tell us how good we can make a Sho-Ryu-Ken or such things onto the Pandora.
So preordering under this conditions is no choice for me. I will get a Unit after the first 3000 and I'm sure that the first batch will not be the last one.