340 replies to this topic

[Aimless_E]

Both: I don't have a Windows/Mac development "environment" setup, so we will have to stick to youtube videos and the like until the Pandora comes out and is in all our hands. I like the idea of gloss grays maybe with a little bit of a suggested pattern with in the gloss or gray gradient.

Once we have decided on the look I'll need the mock-up cut-up into individual images so that I can place and implement. I'll set a goal list for the project so that we can see how my side of things are progressing.

Oh, what should we call this....thing?

[Tiptup300]

I have used linux, but i usually use a mac. i agree that the mockup should be based on Tiptup3000's, and maybe there could be some type of sort function, like the sort by: bar in the corner that could sort by console, manufacturer, and era. And Tiptup3000, may I suggest a charcoal gray for the color, but with the gloss of the blue in your mockup. Anything works though, your mockup is top notch.
For AimlessE-
I think the fonts should be consistent throughout the menu system, and I think we should use the type from Tiptup3000's mockup if he provides it, or maybe Myriad or Century Gothic. These should probably be used like they are used in Tiptup's mockup (on the top bar, in the descriptions).
As for the buttons, i think that before selected, they should look convex, and when selected concave.
I'm sure that Tiptup3000 will come with his new mockup soon, and then we can work off that.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Curved." Also don't forget the fonts still have to be legal to use, the fonts shown in the mockup are vista fonts, so they can't be.

For sorting options I was thinking Genre, Year, Console, Manufacturer, Player Amount, or Title.

The main thing I would like (don't need) is abillity for alpha enabled images.

EDIT: I made a mockup of what the logo could be like, it doesn't HAVE to be ZiB, but that was the original name in my mind.

Edited by Tiptup300, 04 November 2008 - 04:25 PM.

[Aimless_E]

Well sell us ZiB whats it stand for?

What are the fonts in vista called?

[Tiptup300]

My two favorite fonts from vista are Segoe UI and Myriad Pro. For the mockup I used Myriad Pro.

ZiB doesn't really mean anything. I just thought it looked kinda cool. =\

[PandoraRox]

Tiptup, I think you could use Myriad Pro or something like it, as it is readily used and available all over the internet, and I think Myriad is free. Maybe you can use this one if you can't use Myriad: [http://www.dafont.com/street-corner.font]. Those sorting options sound great, and maybe we could have one that suggests games that you may like to play. Are you going to give Aimless E the images so he can work on it?

To AimlessE- I think that ZiB would be a cool name as Tiptup said. That logo he made looks cool. I'm sure that he can provide you with the final mockup so you can implement it. One question- what are you going to do with controls? Are you going to use the d-pad or maybe the touchscreen? By the way, I can't get a Pandora until next year. Can we do Youtube videos?

[Tiptup300]

Tiptup, I think you could use Myriad Pro or something like it, as it is readily used and available all over the internet, and I think Myriad is free. Maybe you can use this one if you can't use Myriad: [http://www.dafont.com/street-corner.font]. Those sorting options sound great, and maybe we could have one that suggests games that you may like to play. Are you going to give Aimless E the images so he can work on it?

To AimlessE- I think that ZiB would be a cool name as Tiptup said. That logo he made looks cool. I'm sure that he can provide you with the final mockup so you can implement it. One question- what are you going to do with controls? Are you going to use the d-pad or maybe the touchscreen? By the way, I can't get a Pandora until next year. Can we do Youtube videos?

I'd assume the dpad/analog/& touchscreen would work. Just to be consistent. I haven't finished the final mockup yet, I'll make sure to just share it all here so everyone can see the progress. I think it would be better to have the core done before adding the eye candy. Just a thought.

[Aimless_E]

YouTube videos are a definite yes.

The interface will use both the touch screen and the what ever else I can get working.

and Yes the core stuff is definitely more important. than the front-end but I want to make sure we have as much planning done as possible so that I know what all needs to be automated and what needs a configuration option.

Edited by Aimless_E, 05 November 2008 - 05:59 PM.

[PandoraRox]

I agree that the core and other things should be done before we do work w/ eye candy. But it is great that you are working on the final design, Tiptup, and I look forward to seeing your work. I have a question- on your mockup, is the screenshot of Sonic a screenshot, or did you intend for the game to be playing in the background? It doesn't matter, I was just wondering.

To aimlessE- Working on the core is a good idea so we can get the framework set for the software. I think that eye cnady should be added after. Also, thanks for putting the progess of the project in your signature. It helps a lot.

[Tiptup300]

Okay, first thing we need to get down. Will emulators be added dynamicly or not. If they are dynamic we'll need to cut down to only the emulators that have no big quirks. If by code we will have to figure out which emulators have too much specifics to worry about. We don't want to add a bunch of features for each and every emulator. This must remain consistent.

BTW, Tweaks: http://img147.images...5/deleteyq9.png

EDIT:

More tweaks:

Item Unselected: http://img120.images...9/deleteng5.png
Item Selected: http://img151.images...8/deleteuw6.png

As you can see, I elimated the bars as they just took up screen space.

Edited by Tiptup300, 06 November 2008 - 03:57 AM.

[Wertigon]

As for the roms themselves, and having screenshots etc, two solutions come to my mind;

1. A central repository, keeping MD5 hashes of every game to every platform, and letting ZiB access it whenever new content is detected on the SD-Card

Pros:
- Easy to set up
- Once the database is established it requires minimum maintenance
- Doesn't require anything from the emulators or users

Cons:
- Requires a bit of work to get it working properly
- Single-point-of-failure - if the database dies we're back to square one
- Bandwidth intensive on the server side

2. Define a new format (let's call it .urf - Universal Rom Format), which is basicly a zipfile containing several smaller files:

- title.png - The screenshot of the title screen
- screenX.png - A bunch of optional screenshots, where X is a number between 0 and 9
- romimage.ext - The ROM image(s) (sometimes a game has more than one disc, etc)
- info.xml - A short XML document containing all useful metadata like company, release year, game system, tags, your rating of the game etc (doesn't have to be xml, might as well be a textfile)

Also, the zipfile format should be seekable, that is, you can uncompress it on-the-go directly to RAM, even if the file is bigger than your available RAM.

Pros:
- Not dependent on an internet connection for getting screenshots and stuff
- Bandwidth friendly
- Intelligent sorting after tags, title etc, and also allows for nifty things like letting the front-end put the game where it belongs (automagic placements! Yays! )

Cons:
- It'll take lots and lots of work defining the format, deciding whether to allow localizations, what about translation patches etc
- Emulators must be able to accept this new format, so devs must cooperate (can be worked around somewhat by unzipping to a temp dir first, but will not work with those 700 MB iso roms)
- Things WILL get tagged in a stupid manner (Like someone tagging "Zelda: A Link To The Past" as "Super Mario World" - A minor headache however)

Personally, I think the second option is the more viable long-term solution, but it's also the one that needs the most planning and coordination to get to a working state. However, if it's happening now in the beginning of the Pandora's life cycle when most emulator devs are still active, the plans of a nice shiney frontend stands a much greater chance.

Either way is fine for me however.

[Tiptup300]

1: MD5's aren't very useful. Each rom will have like 100 different versions.

Mario 1 [!]
Mario 1 US[!]
Mario 1 !!![US]!!!
Mario 1 EU
Mario 1

So that won't be the best method.

2. Not very realistic for people with like 1,000 roms. We're probably not going to go there.

The best method I'd say is to have the software look at the title of the rom lets say "Super Mario World (U).smc" It removes the extension and the (U). It would query the server and find "Super Mario World" under Super Nintendo (since the user will have it in the right folder.) Then it will download all the information on the game and store it on the database within the program.

Now let's say theres one called "rom.smc", it would search and find nothing so the user would have to manually enter the rom title which is "Super Goom Goom Palace", well it would query the server once more and find nothing. Well, it's time for this user to either let it be incomplete on information or update himself and submit the info to the server for later approval into the database.

The best bet would be to mark unknown games and try to urge users to keep their games correctly marked.

I realize this would be a HUUUGE project/undertaking to get all that in, but I figure it would be worth it, and could potentially successfully ported to pc. That's the most realistic way to deal with game information IMO. Unless we take away the server and let each user update the data themselves (which would be fine at the start.)

A lot of emulators have screenshot abillities already, I was thinking if it were possible to tap into those features and let the user take the screenshots like in the ZnexBox emulator.

I dunno...

[Wertigon]

The problem with using the filename is that there are many different ways to name something. For example;

SuperMarioWorld
Super_Mario_World
super_mario_world
SUPER_MARIO_WORLD

etc, it gets even worse once you mix in exclamation marks and hyphens;

King Arthur's World
King Arthur's World
King Arthur`s World

Which one is the correct one? The beautfy of URF is that it'd be tied to the specific ROM, and it'd allow for automated tools, as well.

[PandoraRox]

Okay, first thing we need to get down. Will emulators be added dynamicly or not. If they are dynamic we'll need to cut down to only the emulators that have no big quirks. If by code we will have to figure out which emulators have too much specifics to worry about. We don't want to add a bunch of features for each and every emulator. This must remain consistent.

BTW, Tweaks: http://img147.images...5/deleteyq9.png

EDIT:

More tweaks:

Item Unselected: http://img120.images...9/deleteng5.png
Item Selected: http://img151.images...8/deleteuw6.png

As you can see, I elimated the bars as they just took up screen space.

That looks great. Good Job. Is that the final design? Also, I think renaming of Roms could work as long as we get the names from some sort of database. I agree that diff. File names could be tough, but I'm sure that we will find a way.

[Wertigon]

That looks great. Good Job. Is that the final design? Also, I think renaming of Roms could work as long as we get the names from some sort of database. I agree that diff. File names could be tough, but I'm sure that we will find a way.

Another thing that came to mind; what about localizations? A game in Japanese might have the title screen in Japanese while the english version has the title screen in english. Thus, do we display the title screen in Japanese, or English? And what if it's a fan translation?

And, using the names would just be the exact same thing as using md5 - it's a primary key used to define something with. So, we'll still have the exact same problems as with md5 hashes... :/

[Tiptup300]

I'm not saying having a direct match up of Super Mario World. I'm saying having a search function that would return a list of matches. Then the user would choose.

And whats this about different languages? I was saying the user would take care of the screenshots, not the server.

EDIT: I could use some input on the the tweaks I made.

Edited by Tiptup300, 06 November 2008 - 04:47 PM.