77 replies to this topic

[Clare]

I 100% agree with Dave on this one, I have it on good authority that industry are going crazy over OLED, not just in conventional displays, but for applications such as book readers etc, a lot of money is being thrown at OLED technology and after using my Wiz I am very excited at its potential.

The ONLY gripe we currently have is the probable short life of the blue emitters, but later on today I'm going to pop over to our physics department and see if I can get more info on this as they are deep in development with OLED tech themselves.

I can only voice my opinion of the AMOLED screen on my wiz and say WOW. I didn't realise how bad the display on my PSP and GP2X was until I put it alongside the Wiz. I can see in a few years time the technology will have progressed to a stage where production of 40" television screens will be mega cheap. I have reported this next fact to the forum before but I might as well do it again:
Plasma and TFT screens are a real pain to make and are very expensive, but right now, in development is a system of printing OLED screens, yes I did say printing. They are developing OLED inks and they will literally use an ink jet style device and print the OLED transistor layers onto whatever surface they want. So what is the practical upshot? Price, even if they don't solve the blue emitter degradation, a replacement screen is going to be oh so cheap. however I still reckon they emitter life time will be extended as the technology develops. OLED picture is far superior to any other flat screen technology I have seen, I can only describe it as "It's like have a flat high quality CRT".

[pea]

They last only around 20,000 hours

I love it!

Considering you used it for at least a full charge (5 hours) every single day, the blue LED would last 11 years!

Now perhaps more realistically, you don't play every day, and some days less than 5 hours, this could easilly mean the LED would last at least 20 years.

I don't see this limited lifetime as much of a problem

[wejp]

They last only around 20,000 hours

I love it!

At 20 000 hours the blue emitter has reached half its brightness. That means you'll notice the color shift long before those 20 000 power-on hours. So your calculation does not really make much sense.

[Orange Pumpkin]

Very interesting ,, do the LCD screen age slower ?? And does it have the problem You mentioned ??

I know it is not a place for a tutorial about screens so could You please give a link with the LCD/OLED + and - ??

LCD just blocks light in varying intensities from the backlight it is a sort of "light valve" So no LCD screens don't really burn in or age like that (this is also why "screen savers" are worthless on today's LCD computer monitors).

Well I think I know how the screen work I was already thought about that but thanks for the rest

Edit:

They last only around 20,000 hours

I love it!

At 20 000 hours the blue emitter has reached half its brightness. That means you'll notice the color shift long before those 20 000 power-on hours. So your calculation does not really make much sense.

O no it happens that fast ,, Now I know why Apple didn't put OLED screens to there mobile devices

And yes Pea Your right it is bit long but the usage still get worst and the screen less blue and after the 11 years it will still work but even after 5 it won't work like a new one or even close to it ( At least I think so )

Edited by Orange Pumpkin, 29 January 2009 - 01:15 PM.

[Orange Pumpkin]

So what is on it's place on the EXT port ??

As far as I know the EXT port didn't change

How do you know? The main processor did, the pcb did, I find it odd they'll keep the ext port identicial. Otherwise they would ship gp2x cradles to Wiz developers rather than Wiz-specific break out of boards.

Well I was really happy that it had SDIO and the TV-out is a thing where We can use it

Does anybody know where can I find the "time" ( in CPU circles ) that the commands need to be done ,, now I'm the most interested in changing the SDIO signals in 4-bit mode ?? ( I know that usually is given only in 8/16 and low level 32 bit CPU but I would like to count more less how would the TV-out via SDIO use the CPU in % )

I asked my Dad and he said it isn't so easy but that maybe he will help me

Edit: If it will use the CPU too much there still would be a possibility of cuting the color number

Edited by Orange Pumpkin, 30 January 2009 - 04:50 PM.

[quote]

Current OLEDs are very new technology. The problem is the blue emitter. They last only around 20,000 hours. So what you will see is over time whites will turn more and more yellow (blue gets weak, red and green do not nearly as fast, red+green =yellow). It is not like the screen will be perfect up to 20,000 hours then go bad. The screen will gradually yellow and the 20,000 hour mark is when the blue emitter is at half of the brightness it was new. At this point the color will be really bad. I suppose what can be done at this point is to have an application that will dim the red and green brightness to match the blue (sliders adjusted by user). The screen will obviously be dimmer but at least the color will be better.

OLEDs have some very good qualities. The response time kills any LCD (or plasma or CRT even) it is very fast with no image retention or motion blur. The viewing angle is perfect, unlike an LCD that shifts color and contrast when viewed off axis. They are thin as you don't have to have a backlight panel like an LCD, the display makes it's own light. OLEDs are power efficient (important in a handheld) only the pixels that are on are using power. On an LCD the backlight is always full power no matter what. Then worse yet you need to use MORE power to turn on the LCD pixels to block the always on backlight in certain spots (pixels). The OLED black level is the best you can get. Basicaly black is true black. If you have an all black image in a dark room on an LCD you can still see a glow from the screen. With an OLED you couldn't even tell it was on, this makes contrast levels superior to anything. So really the only issue with OLED is the burn-in/lifetime issues. When/if they can fix that other display tech like LCD, plasma, CRT are dead.

You have mentioned a multitude of good points against the one bad one.
The screen type sounds great.
The Wiz is now even more appealing, thanks .

Edited by pandora, 30 January 2009 - 06:45 PM.

[Squidge]

Does anybody know where can I find the "time" ( in CPU circles ) that the commands need to be done ,, now I'm the most interested in changing the SDIO signals in 4-bit mode ?? ( I know that usually is given only in

Yes, you can do 4-bit SDIO. 4-bit mode is done in hardware, so cpu usage will be low.

However, the Wiz datasheet is under non disclosure agreement, so it will not be easy to find out how to use the SD hardware. You will have to read the Linux kernel source code.

[Senor Quack]

You have mentioned a multitude of good points against the one bad one.
The screen type sounds great.
The Wiz is now even more appealing, thanks .

Seriously. I'd say that 10,000 practical useful playing hours for a $180 gaming device is pretty good. That's an enormous amount of time and so the tradeoff is very much worth it.

[Phawx]

I wrote an article about blu-ray and OLED. How Lasers and LEDs are manufactured the same way and blu-ray has a very small usable life.

It's one of the reason's I think Sony 'forced' full game installs. Saying that improved game load times, while true, I believe was a scapegoat.

You can see lots of posts cropping up of PS3's not reading blu-ray discs anymore but it will still read DVD and CD, because the Red and Infrared lasers are still intact.

[DaveC]

They last only around 20,000 hours

I love it!

Considering you used it for at least a full charge (5 hours) every single day, the blue LED would last 11 years!

Now perhaps more realistically, you don't play every day, and some days less than 5 hours, this could easilly mean the LED would last at least 20 years.

I don't see this limited lifetime as much of a problem

Well like I said before it is not like the screen looks perfect for 20,000 hours then shuts off. You will probably start noticing a color shift around only 5000 hours.

Plus if there is an app that you use alot you may see image burn-in even sooner than that. If someone likes to play PAC-Man in MAME allot after a few hundred hours they may see a ghost image of that blue maze over other apps.

I don't know if OLED is like plasma but if it is the light loss is not linear. This means it loses a large percentage of brightness in the beginning then levels off a bit. This means the Wiz screen could suffer burn-in instantly but be less susceptible to it later.

[NoixPecan]

Well like I said before it is not like the screen looks perfect for 20,000 hours then shuts off. You will probably start noticing a color shift around only 5000 hours.

Many computer monitors reach a 5000-hour runtime in less than a year, but for a mobile gaming device, it is likely to take quite a few years. Not to say that a mean of recalibrating the display (like user-adjustable RGB curves) is not needed, we are geeks after all.

[Sphinxter]

I wrote an article about blu-ray and OLED. How Lasers and LEDs are manufactured the same way and blu-ray has a very small usable life.

It's one of the reason's I think Sony 'forced' full game installs. Saying that improved game load times, while true, I believe was a scapegoat.

You can see lots of posts cropping up of PS3's not reading blu-ray discs anymore but it will still read DVD and CD, because the Red and Infrared lasers are still intact.

Fascinating stuff, thanks, was just thinking about buying a blu-ray.

[pea]

Well like I said before it is not like the screen looks perfect for 20,000 hours then shuts off. You will probably start noticing a color shift around only 5000 hours.

I realise that, but I don't think (especially given the other benefits) that it is going to be much of a problem. 5000 hours is still around 3 years. 3 years ago (end 2005ish) was still GP32 for me, and since then there has been another generation of console in between

Replacement screens 'might' also be available

[Clare]

I can confirm that the Wiz is not in any GP2X form factor, the Wiz is only in it's own form and the GP2X is separate. Sorry guys, the Wiz will never be in a GP2X case.

[Peter R]

I can confirm that the Wiz is not in any GP2X form factor, the Wiz is only in it's own form and the GP2X is separate. Sorry guys, the Wiz will never be in a GP2X case.

But the Vocamaster does exist.