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The Pandora can not run Windows (or WINE)


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#91 michield

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 12:09 PM

Did anyone try Qemu + Wine on the beagleboard?

I am curious how much memory it uses. People have tried this combo on ARM (Zaurus)
and PPC (old macs) succesfully (google it!)

Soo... is this doable with enough memory left on 256 MB without swapping all the time? :-)

e.g:
http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2004-June/014468.html
(very old!)

Of course this is a large step away from the ultimate combo...
ARM compiled Wine (or ReactOS, they are making an ARM version http://www.reactos.org/en/newsletter_37.html )
with a native DX3D->GLES wrapper and a translator that takes QEMU translated x86 dll calls and puts it
in native ARM format...

#92 guizm

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 01:03 PM

Im curious, the game red alert 2 for win 98 runs on a P.75 with 8 MB of ram, could this game be emulated? If so, emulating an old OS will have touchscreen funcion like a mouse?

#93 WizardStan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 01:07 PM

Im curious, the game red alert 2 for win 98 runs on a P.75 with 8 MB of ram, could this game be emulated? If so, emulating an old OS will have touchscreen funcion like a mouse?

x86 emulation is very weak. Even a P75 takes a lot of power to do. Assume for the foreseeable future the answer is no.
As far as your touchscreen-as-mouse question, take a look at the Warcraft 2 static recompile ;)

#94 guizm

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 01:12 PM


Im curious, the game red alert 2 for win 98 runs on a P.75 with 8 MB of ram, could this game be emulated? If so, emulating an old OS will have touchscreen funcion like a mouse?

x86 emulation is very weak. Even a P75 takes a lot of power to do. Assume for the foreseeable future the answer is no.
As far as your touchscreen-as-mouse question, take a look at the Warcraft 2 static recompile ;)


Wow, didn't expected an answer so fast, Thanks :) . But im asking cause in this thread you said that it could maybe emulate 466/66, and there were running at 100 Mhz no? Also, Laurent was working in some x86 emu, do you know how's it going?

#95 pelrun

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 01:15 PM

People have tried this combo on ARM (Zaurus) and PPC (old macs) succesfully (google it!)


Emulating WINE doesn't count. <_<

#96 Laurent

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 03:59 PM

x86 emulation is very weak. Even a P75 takes a lot of power to do. Assume for the foreseeable future the answer is no.

Currently QEMUonARM seems to exceed Pentium 75 speed for nbench in similar conditions (cf this). Note the results on that post are for a chip @400 MHz. No, I have no Pandora to test and can't seem to setup my Beagle :(
OTOH Wine would slow it down, and it's very probable that the game requirements are not the whole truth...

As far as your touchscreen-as-mouse question, take a look at the Warcraft 2 static recompile ;)

Doing a static recompile is probably illegal in some countries, such as those forbidding reverse-engineering, unless perhaps if the process is fully automated (and I doubt it is). Oh well anyway emulation legality is questionable in many cases :)

#97 Shaun.

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:08 AM

So since WINE only works when linux and windows are using the same architecture, do you think it would be possible for a WINE type program to be made for the Pandora to emulate the Iphone 3gs since they both use Cortex A8.

#98 valhalla

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 11:58 AM

So since WINE only works when linux and windows are using the same architecture, do you think it would be possible for a WINE type program to be made for the Pandora to emulate the Iphone 3gs since they both use Cortex A8.


I don't see a reason why it could be theoretically impossible, but consider how long it took for wine to reach version 1.0, and the number of persons that have a need for wine as compared to those who would use an iphone "emulator" for the pandora, and I wouldn't keep my breath while waiting for it.

#99 Laurencevde

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 12:10 AM

So since WINE only works when linux and windows are using the same architecture, do you think it would be possible for a WINE type program to be made for the Pandora to emulate the Iphone 3gs since they both use Cortex A8.


AFAIK, the iphone-os is pretty much osx-on-arm. IF it also uses cocoa for the GUI, it's actually a bit easier than it looks. Most of cocoa has already been implemented for X11 in GNUstep. But you still need to implement a loader for the binary-file-format (there are some dead projects) and the lower-level tools, libs, and functionality. Oh, and the audio-layer...

It will still be a monumental amount of work, apple won't like you, the result will probably not be as fast, finding enough people to do it will be difficult, and it'll take years, but it's not impossible, and I expect the work that still needs to be done to be less than wine needed to do(OSX seems to be cleaner than win32, better documented, more unix-like, and already partially implemented).

Just don't expect anything usable within openPandora's lifespan...

#100 Exophase

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:45 PM

So since WINE only works when linux and windows are using the same architecture, do you think it would be possible for a WINE type program to be made for the Pandora to emulate the Iphone 3gs since they both use Cortex A8.


They may have compatible CPUs but Pandora doesn't have a multi-touch screen, accelerometer, or magnetometer, and I'm sure lacks other vital hardware components as well. Good luck doing a lot on iPhone apps with single touch control being your only input.

#101 Biotoxsin

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 02:56 AM

I'm curious as to why any of you would want to use Windows in the first place. It's not really a function that the Pandora needs, or one that really suits it's purpose. WINE suppourt on the other hand, would be nice to have for small applications.

#102 hobbyman II

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:27 AM

would not red alert 2 run under Dosbox?, it`s a dos game isn`t it? (don`t have a copy of red alert 2 and never tried dosbox)
there was a lot of good stuff written for Dos, though I am guessing not all of it will run at playable speeds.

btw if you want red alert then just play Dune on the (confirmed) Amiga emulator, same game, different gfx, Spice vs Tiberium, house Harakonen vs NOD etc, biggest blatant rehash since Crowthers "potty pigeon"

edit
@biotoxin: I think they are wanting some directx games to run on Pandora, so they need windows, not going to happen imo, running windows in emulation is only good for showing people you got windows to run in a emulator, windows it`s self is way too slow to actually run anything on top afaik

Edited by hobbyman II, 01 November 2009 - 10:44 AM.


#103 guizm

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:56 AM

would not red alert 2 run under Dosbox?, it`s a dos game isn`t it? (don`t have a copy of red alert 2 and never tried dosbox)
there was a lot of good stuff written for Dos, though I am guessing not all of it will run at playable speeds.

btw if you want red alert then just play Dune on the (confirmed) Amiga emulator, same game, different gfx, Spice vs Tiberium, house Harakonen vs NOD etc, biggest blatant rehash since Crowthers "potty pigeon"

edit
@biotoxin: I think they are wanting some directx games to run on Pandora, so they need windows, not going to happen imo, running windows in emulation is only good for showing people you got windows to run in a emulator, windows it`s self is way too slow to actually run anything on top afaik


My pc version of red alert 2 is for windows 98 and it run in at least 75 mhz, even if there's a way to run it under dosbox i don't think it will run good.

I think laurent is working on a x86 emulator, let's see if in the future we can emulate a 466/66 pc :rolleyes:

btw thanks for that of dune, i'll try it!

#104 WizardStan

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:25 PM

I'm curious as to why any of you would want to use Windows in the first place. It's not really a function that the Pandora needs, or one that really suits it's purpose. WINE suppourt on the other hand, would be nice to have for small applications.

This thread was started in response to the startling number of posts asking if it could run Windows or Wine so they could play WoW and other modern games.
WINE is not an emulator! You would need an x86 emulator running underneath it which, combined, may give some kind of usefulness, but nowhere near the usefulness that this thread was started to counteract.
If you're going to post in a thread, a sticky no less, the least you can do is actually read it to see if your questions had already been answered.

#105 L-dub

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 06:02 PM

If this is a real issue, why not just VNC into a Windows session via the network connections on the Pandora. Doing this with the BeagleBoard and every cell phone that I have owned in the past ten years has proven very reliable with decent performance. Since it seems that the Windows 7 Arm port is not gonna happen anytime soon and emulating M$ x86 has a high overhead, VNC or other remote desktop utility might prove the best solution for those trying to play World of Warcraft or other x86 based games.

edit:
Sorry if this post is redundant... didn't want to read through 7 pages of x86 emu debate to post
Also as an embedded developer Win CE on OMAP3 is a reality and could make this platform more extensible. But Win CE is a very stripped down OS making the dev work hard for integrating peripherals and support code. Windows Mobile is based on the CE core and only adds a limited set of apps/utilities (support code).... Hope this info makes the wheels spin for anyone interested

Edited by L-dub, 02 November 2009 - 06:20 PM.