[Azure]

its almost June 20th...in July the pandora's will be shipped likely. cant we have a couple more vids and news before they get shipped? ^^

I'm playing it safe with Craig's July estimation and taking it, as usual, with a grain of salt (and I recommend you do so as well to avoid disappointment). How many times have the OpenPandora crew given us estimates for when they think the Pandora will be released (I recall somebody's signature with something like 8+ months given as possible times for Pandora release, each one crossed out)? How many times have they been right? What's different with this current estimate compared to previous estimate (progress? Progress has been made with each successive estimate, and each time people felt confident in the new estimate, but each time they were all disappointed)? I'm not trying to nail the OpenPandora crew for their estimates here. I know that often times things are outside of their hands (waiting on shipping or the factory; bank problems), but that's exactly the point. Murphy's Law

I've said it before, but, the next video from Craig must be something out of the ordinary. I can't (almost) possible think anything else when it was two weeks ago he announced he was working on one.

OR, something has gone really wrong and we will get an update that the video and Pandora will be delayed for X months.

I don't know about you guys, but other than better angles & lighting (and possibly HD? please!), my main expectation for this new video is substance & length (15+ minutes). I'm also getting bored with all of the Quake footage (we get it, it runs all three versions of Quake just fine! ), and I know I'm not the only one. At this point, if there's more Quake footage in there, it better be Quake 3 with some nub action

This post has been edited by Azure: 11 June 2009 - 01:39 PM

[borgqueenx]

We're always getting little tidbits of news like that, but I think what WizardStan wanted to emphasis is the dry spell in terms of pictures/videos. In my opinion, I feel we're a bit antsy for more media because more than 2 weeks ago Craig said on the official blog that 2 more videos were on the way, and we've yet to see either one (unless Pickle's video is one of those?). I think we were all also expecting to get that video of a black CNC'd Pandora not too long after Craig said he was working on it 2 weeks ago. If Craig hadn't said anything at all about that video, then I personally wouldn't be nearly as antsy for more information (I'm checking Craig's YouTube Channel 20+ times everyday because everyday I think "this video's taken so long to make that it can't possibly take any longer; today must be the day!"). This can't be healthy

I get that, but it's hardly been two weeks since an update.

For my part, I'm very pleased with what I've seen so far. I don't really feel the need to see more (not that I wouldn't be excited about it) prior to getting my hands on one of these units. I'm more interested in updates, even the tidbits, at this point. But, that's just me.

EDIT:
Also, @borgqueenx, I don't think it was ever said that they planned on shipping in July. Craig had the two statements:
"I'm prepared to say July."
"I'm pretty sure on July."

He didn't mention shipping in either of those. AFAIK, they still haven't done the MP case yet, and nobody really has a clear idea of which bits of the case have been produced, and which have not. So, don't get your hopes up to get your unit in July/August. Also, given the track record, I wouldn't feel comfortable assuming anything other than the final cases will be ordered by July 31st. Of course with the hope that I'm wrong

and i said: "likely".

[r00tw00t]

I don't know about you guys, but other than better angles & lighting (and possibly HD? please!), my main expectation for this new video is substance & length (15+ minutes). I'm also getting bored with all of the Quake footage (we get it, it runs all three versions of Quake just fine! ), and I know I'm not the only one. At this point, if there's more Quake footage in there, it better be Quake 3 with some nub action

Agree 100%.
This is what Craig said about the upcoming video:
"The new video is taking more time as I'm trying to meet many requests. It's getting there. iMovie08 is horrible though, managed to find a download for 06."
That was 1+ week ago.

Maybe he has a slow internet downloading iMovie06

[VRAndy]

EDIT:
Also, @borgqueenx, I don't think it was ever said that they planned on shipping in July. Craig had the two statements:
"I'm prepared to say July."
"I'm pretty sure on July."

The name of the thread was "Estimated Release Date"!!
If Craigix is not planing on shipping out the Pandora's in the month of July then he is intentionally misleading us.

He (And the rest of the gang) are certainly allowing us to believe that's what he meant.

If Craigix would talk like a normal human being and not some cross between the Sphinx and a politician, I think it'd go a long way towards the regular progress updates people ask about. Updates should be about tricking us into being happy while TECHNICALLY not saying anything that's untrue, they should be about actually communicating information!

Also, if the updates could not over-simplify things so badly that they contradict each other(like the comments on the Wifi) we'd also appreciate that. We're grownups here. You don't need to write your two-sentence updates like you're writing them for the Simple English Wikipedia. Feel free to use more than two sentences.

There's really no excuse for that. As I and others have pointed out other projects, commercial and non-commercial have had real, detailed development blogs, that have accurately communicated the mundane day to day details of a project and it did not cause the sky to fall. It was also not dull, or a waste of time.

[emil10001]

and i said: "likely".

Fair enough.

Also, from the context, it does appear that Craig was referring to the release date when he said "July." Hope he's right.

EDIT:
@VRAndy I tend to agree.

However, if the release is July 31st for the first few pandoras, then he won't be incorrect, while most people would not receive their units until mid to late August. I hope that will not be the situation, but we don't really have any details. And as an engineer, thinking about the logistics of getting a finished product out the door, from where we are based on the information that we have been given, it seems near impossible. So, unless there's a fair amount we don't know (likely), everything would have to go perfectly to ship this at the end of July.

Not trying to be negative here, just trying to think this through.

This post has been edited by emil10001: 11 June 2009 - 02:06 PM

[Pleng]

EDIT:
Also, @borgqueenx, I don't think it was ever said that they planned on shipping in July. Craig had the two statements:
"I'm prepared to say July."
"I'm pretty sure on July."

The name of the thread was "Estimated Release Date"!!
If Craigix is not planing on shipping out the Pandora's in the month of July then he is intentionally misleading us.

He (And the rest of the gang) are certainly allowing us to believe that's what he meant.

Just like he was prepared to say November which, let's be honest, was NEVER a reality.

Craig may well be prepared to say July because he's pretty sure that at least he'll have a fully working prototype to demo by the end of July, enough to keep people who were previously going to cancel their order happy for another month or so until mass production happens and delivery takes place.

Let's face it, OpenPandora are *still* accepting orders which means there are still units available that weren't re-ordered. I'm willing to bet that number is over a hundred. And I'm sure there's a trickle of people canceling their orders. Maybe 1 every week or two. Not a massive amount but if people keep canceling then eventually there would be financial issues. Sure, once the untit is out and in circulation those units will sell out within a couple of days, but until then every pre-order canceled is money out of the OP pot.

Craig has to keep saying things like "I'm prepared to say July" to make sure that as few people cancel as possible. Quite frankly I doubt we'll see any Pandoras delivered until August or September.

[RajTakhar]

Shit may even be christmas

[borgqueenx]

EDIT:
Also, @borgqueenx, I don't think it was ever said that they planned on shipping in July. Craig had the two statements:
"I'm prepared to say July."
"I'm pretty sure on July."

The name of the thread was "Estimated Release Date"!!
If Craigix is not planing on shipping out the Pandora's in the month of July then he is intentionally misleading us.

He (And the rest of the gang) are certainly allowing us to believe that's what he meant.

If Craigix would talk like a normal human being and not some cross between the Sphinx and a politician, I think it'd go a long way towards the regular progress updates people ask about. Updates should be about tricking us into being happy while TECHNICALLY not saying anything that's untrue, they should be about actually communicating information!

Also, if the updates could not over-simplify things so badly that they contradict each other(like the comments on the Wifi) we'd also appreciate that. We're grownups here. You don't need to write your two-sentence updates like you're writing them for the Simple English Wikipedia. Feel free to use more than two sentences.

There's really no excuse for that. As I and others have pointed out other projects, commercial and non-commercial have had real, detailed development blogs, that have accurately communicated the mundane day to day details of a project and it did not cause the sky to fall. It was also not dull, or a waste of time.

true. but maby something will happen again and we can forget July. Im glad we have July as a date. but be prepared for August.

[Mithrildor]

4 Pages and no post by craig, EvilDragon or MWeston

[Alpha2]

even if he ships the first one by July 31st, it's still shipped in july. By any other corporation's standards that's still acceptable.

When he says something like that I take it to mean that if you were to look at a list of milestones that need to take place for it to even remotly have a chance of happening the list doesnt have many things that he doesnt expect to be done by then. So fixing the hinge or even the Dpad, should barring something unforeseen be fixed and MPed intime for atleast some of the systems to go out in July. So in essence saying July would be a catch all for the thyings people seem worried about. Wifi? if all goes well then by this date, Hinge? if all goes well by this date, Dpad? third verse same - as the first. so why not a firm date for each of these things? because people go apeshit and start calling it vaporware again ever time they miss something that they put a firm date on. maybe there need a little wigle room for some of these dates, maybe Wifi wont be ready exactly next week, maybe it'll be first week of July that it's done, they can't always be sure.

I agree not everything seems to be totally professional about the way we're being informed but it's not often that anyone working on a project like this actually comes down to the street with the rest of us and actually TELLS you things in a direct response to a forum post. Most companies wouldn't even tell you they need to make a slight adjust ment to a Dpad, they'd just do it and you'd never even know there was a problem to beginwith. We've been told several times that Wifi is being worked on and that there are problems writting the driver for it, what more do you need to know about the subject that think needs to be said?

[VRAndy]

even if he ships the first one by July 31st, it's still shipped in july. By any other corporation's standards that's still acceptable.

That's totally acceptable.

(Although if the other 3999 don't follow the first one reasonably closely, we're likely to feel extremely misled. )

This post has been edited by VRAndy: 11 June 2009 - 05:07 PM

[ashdjones]

Don't think the last lot of announcements were thought through very well, for example:

"D-Pad needs work!"
"Wifi not working!"
"Hey guys, who fancies a whole new machine?"
"Chill out though - Pandora next month, promise!"

...then

*SILENCE*

[gp2.eXe]

I don't know about you guys, but other than better angles & lighting (and possibly HD? please!), my main expectation for this new video is substance & length (15+ minutes). I'm also getting bored with all of the Quake footage (we get it, it runs all three versions of Quake just fine! ), and I know I'm not the only one. At this point, if there's more Quake footage in there, it better be Quake 3 with some nub action

Agree 100%.
This is what Craig said about the upcoming video:
"The new video is taking more time as I'm trying to meet many requests. It's getting there. iMovie08 is horrible though, managed to find a download for 06."
That was 1+ week ago.

Maybe he has a slow internet downloading iMovie06

Also he could be waiting for subscriptions to the YouTube channel to go up to the point where time restriction gets lifted... or something like that. SUBSCRIBE!

[Wootson]

Personally I prefer the way ID Software always does it: "When It's Done!"

The Pandora will come, someday. Until that day I have lots more things to do, and I'm not raging all day about the release date. It's just ridiculous. And OpenPandora doesn't owe you anything, by the way, considering the updates. Every time there is an update, there is always someone who starts another topic to whine about the new update, and why it is such and so, and not something else. I bet the team is getting really sick of it by now.

If they show Quake 3 with smooth FPS on an unfinished OS, it's not good.
If they show you the OS, it's not good.
If they show the almost finished hardware, it's not good.
The hinge is not good. The screen is not good. The Dpad sucks. The analogue sticks don't work like they should.
Craig this, Craig that.
EvilDragon this, EvilDragon that.
And so on, and so on.

It's almost like they are celebrities and paparazzi is following them all day. Stand still for a moment and think by yourself, what would you do by the time that has now come? When you say one thing and it hits Engadget the next morning? I would be very, very careful!

Please keep the excitement in your pants for a little longer

This post has been edited by Wootson: 11 June 2009 - 06:49 PM

[EvilDragon]

Hey, I'd never think Papparazzis would follow me

To get on-topic. I was busy and away during the last weeks... so I'm not totally up-to-date YET.
I mean, I started lots of projects which take up a lot of time (all the archives, the forums, etc.), the WIZ came out and I had to ship a lot of them to the masses, I have to take care of my taxes, etc. etc.
And as the Pandora is not out yet, I can't make a living from ANY of these projects, so this all happens in my spare time...

Anyways, back to the Pandora status.
I'm starving to make a blog post with all details, but I don't know all of them yet
I know craig and Michael are dead busy since a while, I haven't even been able to chat with them and get all updates during the last days... they're definately working hard finishing everything up.
That's the reason I didn't do a blog post now - there would be some speculation and I don't want any speculations on the blog

However, as you're all waiting for news, here's some stuff I know:
The boards are being tested - and looking at the posts I saw from Michael and craig, the last MK seems to be error-free so the mass production could start soon.
I do know for sure that there were some minor changes to the keymat (so that keys feel better, etc.) and the new model data has been submitted to the company, so this is all good. I also fixed the borked keyboard layout (you remember some misaligned keys) weeks ago, so this is also fine.

Boards: OK
Keymats: OK

Now onto the case:
I know there are still some changes made. I don't know exactly what. We all do know the hinge should change, though I guess that's already done since the hole just has do be done a bit bigger Also the DPad will slightly change so that horizontals do work better. Then there will be some minor changes here and there to make the board fit better (it won't help you if everything breaks if you accidentally drop the Pandora).

Dave is currently working on the case - so here's a big YAY and THANKS to DaveC for his work so far. I (and I also guess the community) absolutely appreciate the work on the case, it looks so good already
The company who does the case also offered us to check and fix minor errors when they get the board, etc. from us. And they also do know what they're doing, as they do stuff like this since years

Whether or not this does lead to another CNC is something I don't know yet, that's what I'd like to talk about with Craig and Michael. They seem to be pretty confident on July, so they sure are up to something I don't know yet

Remember that our top priority is still that even the first unit will NOT have such flaws as the GP2X First Edition had. We want to ensure that you'll all be confident - even if we risk some guys jumping off the project by causing delays with some changes.

That one poll where most of you selected to wait for the Pandora until it's ready (regardless how long is take) did show us we're on the right way by making the system perfect. And we all do appreciate and thank you for being with us

I hope that does clear some stuff up