588 replies to this topic

[fusion_power]

The difference isn't that big but I really think the right enemy bird looks better. What do you guys think?

I'm for the brighter one (left). Because Sprites should stand out from the Background to have a clear contrast and no problems to see the sprites.
Background should have a lower contrast, and I think he current relationship between (bright) Sprite and the BG is totaly OK.

Just do some more types of Enemies or alter the colours to "fake" visual different Enemies of the same Sprite-type. There also could be smaller, unmounted Birds/Dragons, whatever or bigger Air-Creatures that need more than one hit to die.
stationarily shooting-thingies onto the Plattforms wohl be also a nice Idea (Catapults, huge Crossbows, whatever). Maybe they also can drop an useful Item when destroyed?

Edited by fusion_power, 23 January 2010 - 05:04 PM.

[pixelmind]

Hi there,
looks like a fun game you're working on.

If you're interested you could use this old dragon animation of mine.
(originally made for Battle of Wesnoth but this sprite is outdated )



It would need quite a bit polish to fit the current style of your game, though.
It's old and poorly done but you can use it as draft if you want to.

( fun fact: this was my first sprite animation attempt )

Cheers, and happy pixel-pushing

[Amigo Bandito Crujiente]

All of the graphics are looking really good! but the mix of pixel art and the more painted style is a bit weird. Well it doesn't look bad, but the sprites I made are very saturated/colourful, while the background isn't.

Don't worry, this won't be such an issue once we get everything running. There is some color clash, but remember that in landscapes objects farther away assume the color of the sky, while the closer ones retain their original tones. It will look much, much better after the backgrounds animate to show more depth.

Also, some honest opinion on this guy here



I'm afraid I don't have your talent when it comes to character sprites.

[fusion_power]

Hi there,
looks like a fun game you're working on.

If you're interested you could use this old dragon animation of mine.
(originally made for Battle of Wesnoth but this sprite is outdated )

It would need quite a bit polish to fit the current style of your game, though.
It's old and poorly done but you can use it as draft if you want to.

( fun fact: this was my first sprite animation attempt )

Cheers, and happy pixel-pushing

Very nice. Remembers me to download Wesnoth and play it again. It's been a while and afaik they had improved alot of stuff. Sadly, there seems to be a big gap between beta-Developer release Version and stable relase Version ^^"

Don't worry, this won't be such an issue once we get everything running. There is some color clash, but remember that in landscapes objects farther away assume the color of the sky, while the closer ones retain their original tones. It will look much, much better after the backgrounds animate to show more depth.

that's what I wanted to say. There are interesting Parallax-effects possible with a couple of BG layers that fading into the sky tone or vanish in the mist.

Also, some honest opinion on this guy here

I'm afraid I don't have your talent when it comes to character sprites.

doesn't look that good to me, needs more "dept" with highlights/shadows 'n stuff I think. Maybe it would be more clear to see when animated? Well, I also can't do "organic" sprites so I just let it be, it's really a tough thing.

[Amigo Bandito Crujiente]

So, over the weekend, my older sister came home from college with her friend for a short visit.

Obsessive person that I am, the first thought I had was 'OH! They will be able to give me input on this project!". But, to my further delight, Marko got a windows executable put out that I could show them. So in total, I had three eager testers for the most important part of the game: the gameplay. My opinion is already well known, this game is absolutely awesome, but it was interesting to watch some other people play (and struggle) with the first level. Collectively, we managed to get past the first level after significant effort, but we had a great time losing horribly.


The consensus is that the first level is perfection, you start in a safe area, the first platform is a ways away, with an enemy between you and him. I watched my older sister attempt to plow right through him three times in a row, everyone present giggling at her exasperation. Needless to say, she represents the 'I suck at video games' demographic, and, as such gamers will probably never be interesting in a pandora, her input is for comic relief only.

Next up at bat was my younger sister, who probably has no idea that there was a console that came before the Nintendo 64. She managed to do fairly well, killing two enemies on her very first try and collecting one egg. She liked the game that was "kind of like a copy of mario, but still good" to put it in her words.

Finally, My sister's friend took a shot, and thought he had everything under control as he flew quickly towards the end of the level, where, as I had informed them, was a cage that had to be entered to complete the level. As he landed on the platform, so sure that he had outperformed the girls, he realized, to his dismay, that you must collect a number of eggs to open the door to the cage.
"Oh, that's just great!"
He got three eggs and then faceplanted an enemy rider.



I think the first dry run of panjoust went well. We all agreed it was a laugh, and "the kind of game you would play while waiting for the bus."


Also, marko, the second level is fucking bullshit
You put a bird right under where I started, it was very not cool (it doesn't help that that damn bird killed me three times IN A ROW, even though I knew he was there)

Whatever.

Keep up the good work, the finished product is going to be amazing, I already know. I listened to the music from Nick, and it fits the game like a glove. When he releases the OGGs for everyone to hear, you guys are in for a treat. All of his other music is top notch as well, I would recommend checking out both his website and youtube page to get an idea of the treat we're in for.

As always, with love and affection,

Bandito

[fusion_power]

I think, Level-design is a art of it's own. Of course, the first level has to be the most easy one and then it's getting harder but never frustrating. Not easy to do I know.
I'm sure, the current "levels" are just rough sketches and will be improved/balanced in the future.

[MarkoeZ]

I think, Level-design is a art of it's own. Of course, the first level has to be the most easy one and then it's getting harder but never frustrating. Not easy to do I know.
I'm sure, the current "levels" are just rough sketches and will be improved/balanced in the future.

You hit the nail on the head there.

Only a week ago i was still working on the level editor, and not much use building levels when the level file configuration still changes (still not definitive, some small stuff needs to be added)

I did think about level 1 a bit. Level2: i only removed stuff that made it (near) impossible to finish, that's all the "design" that went into that . But i am certain i am able to make some quite fun levels once other things are sorted out.

Bandito: Thanks for the play testing! some of the comments are useful (and others just great to hear)

This just made me lol: "kind of like a copy of mario, but still good"

[Amigo Bandito Crujiente]

This just made me lol: "kind of like a copy of mario, but still good"

The worst part is that she was referring to "new super mario brothers wii"

[B-ZaR]

It sounds like the first level is great design, but not necessarily the best first level. I think in the first level the player should be able to get used to the controls without any enemies. The "hard part" of the level would be a hitting the platforms. I'm thinking somehting like this:

                                                                      EGG
                                                                  ----------
       (easy start)                (platforms at different heights)       (precision landing)    (long flight, this distance can be flown without stopping)

  START                EGG                           --------                                                                                    CAGE
----------------   -----------                                                                 EGG                                       -----------------
                                     --------                                                -------       --           --

[foxblock]

Looking really great, love the background art style - great work

If I may give an advice on map files:
We (the Wandor dev team) have just switched from a fixed layout to a more flexible one which looks and works kind of like Ini-Files. It offers the advantage of being human readable, more clear and most important more flexible.
Also, by allowing comments you can explain the file format to new users and ease map creation.
Looking at the game and the map files, you could easily apply such a file format here, too.
It would look kind of like the following:

[start of file]
  Version=0.0.1 //Version of the editor this was saved with for compatibility checking
  
  Player=30,20 //Starting position of the player (X,Y)
  
  Enemy=Bird,100,45 //Enemy Spawn (EnemyType,X,Y)
  Enemy=Bird,20,33
  Enemy=Turtle,55,100
  etc.
  
  Egg=Golden,550,120 //EggType, X, Y (same as enemy spawn)
 etc.
  
  Platform=Normal,100,50,10 //PlatformType,X,Y,Width
  Platform=Ice,400,20,50
  etc.
  [end of file]

This way you could easily add new features like specifying a background image in the map file or adding a level name/author/etc. like

Background=images/bg/level1.png
  Name=Test level
  Author=MarkoeZ

Also you could edit the level in a text editor and fix small positioning errors without firing up the editor.

Also as you can see above, I would opt for iced platforms which let you slip (so you can't stay still on them), maybe slimy platforms which work the other way around (once landed on them you will stand completely still and also can't move sideways, only fly - good for very small platforms which require precision landing, to reduce frustration) and ground based enemies on the platforms (the turtle image gave me the idea, so I guess that is nothing new ).

Anyway, if you consider using such a map file layout, you may want to look at the Wandor code as you may borrow some parts of it (it's open source after all):
http://code.google.c...trunk/Level.cpp - line 320ff
http://code.google.c...uilt/level2.map - working example

Oh, try to ignore the encryption stuff in there (used to prevent map editing), I guess that is something which has to considered in the future.

foxblock out

Edited by foxblock, 24 January 2010 - 10:04 AM.

[fusion_power]

You hit the nail on the head there.

Only a week ago i was still working on the level editor, and not much use building levels when the level file configuration still changes (still not definitive, some small stuff needs to be added)

I did think about level 1 a bit. Level2: i only removed stuff that made it (near) impossible to finish, that's all the "design" that went into that . But i am certain i am able to make some quite fun levels once other things are sorted out.

The first levels could be somehow the tutorial for the game to learn the basics step by step.

It sounds like the first level is great design, but not necessarily the best first level. I think in the first level the player should be able to get used to the controls without any enemies. The "hard part" of the level would be a hitting the platforms. I'm thinking somehting like this:

                                                                      EGG
                                                                  ----------
       (easy start)                (platforms at different heights)       (precision landing)    (long flight, this distance can be flown without stopping)

  START                EGG                           --------                                                                                    CAGE
----------------   -----------                                                                 EGG                                       -----------------
                                     --------                                                -------       --           --

Yes, exactly like this. Good Idea to have no enemies in the 1. level.

[Tripmonkey_uk]

If your on about having no enemies on the first level; how about having balloons (with targets painted on them) floating up the screen every now and then to let the player practice the dashing/hitting manoeuvre etc.

I was also thinking about these balloons holding power ups or game changers during the normal game too. e.g pop a balloon and you get a big gust of wind that last about 30 seconds making it harder to fly straight, or a bag of bird seed that once dropped will lure the enemy mounts go towards it. You get the general idea

[Amigo Bandito Crujiente]

I think you guys are all silly, most of the fun of the game comes from the fact that it's hard. I don't think we should sacrifice that just to make some people feel better. When I had the people over PLAYING the game, nobody complained that it was too hard. They said it was hard, but that was something they thought was important, something that made up a major portion of the game

We don't need some 'Tutorial level' to pander to the people too incompetent to figure out that pressing a button makes you flap your wings, it's not a complex game, really.

Besides, games are already too easy these days.

[B-ZaR]

I think you guys are all silly, most of the fun of the game comes from the fact that it's hard. I don't think we should sacrifice that just to make some people feel better. When I had the people over PLAYING the game, nobody complained that it was too hard. They said it was hard, but that was something they thought was important, something that made up a major portion of the game

We don't need some 'Tutorial level' to pander to the people too incompetent to figure out that pressing a button makes you flap your wings, it's not a complex game, really.

Besides, games are already too easy these days.

I'm not suggesting you make it easier. I'm suggesting making the difficulty curve gradual. You can have all the difficult levels you want while still having a couple of levels to get used to the controls and elements of the game. So not easier, just a couple of levels longer

[fusion_power]

I think you guys are all silly, most of the fun of the game comes from the fact that it's hard. I don't think we should sacrifice that just to make some people feel better. When I had the people over PLAYING the game, nobody complained that it was too hard. They said it was hard, but that was something they thought was important, something that made up a major portion of the game

We don't need some 'Tutorial level' to pander to the people too incompetent to figure out that pressing a button makes you flap your wings, it's not a complex game, really.

Besides, games are already too easy these days.

It's about the first Levels. let us have 2-3 easy levels and you can have 100 insane hard levels ok?
And I hate frustrating games with unfair balancing where you die even in the 1. Level.