[Dragons_Slayer]

Hexen 2 looks nice! Looks like he's playing with the analog nubs, fantastic! Good to see Pandora Panic running on hardware too, too bad Arena didn't show up...

[Creature XL]

ricki, on 02 February 2010 - 10:11 AM, said:

Great stuff! It's getting harder and harder ;)

erm....

[Phawx]

notaz, on 02 February 2010 - 12:10 PM, said:

Gruso, on 02 February 2010 - 08:21 AM, said:

PandoraPanic is up to 24 minigames. :)

Yeah I also should try it

.. when the firmware stops crashing all over the place

Is Pickle supposed to be working on the firmware? This comment seems out of place and may cause some people to overemphasize some or all of the words.

[notaz]

Phawx, on 02 February 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

notaz, on 02 February 2010 - 12:10 PM, said:

.. when the firmware stops crashing all over the place

Is Pickle supposed to be working on the firmware? This comment seems out of place and may cause some people to overemphasize some or all of the words.

Nobody is supposed to be working on anything, there are no people payed for software work on this project, everything relies on volunteers. I'll leave you to decide what this means.

EDIT: just to clarify, I was just moaning that it doesn't work on (at that time) latest firmware because of crashes. Todays image might act much different because this stuff is changing rapidly. We have some experienced people for this stuff.

This post has been edited by notaz: 02 February 2010 - 09:26 PM

[Pleng]

oh dear. that doesn't sound positive :blink:

[JayFoxRox]

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.
It didn't sound like you were trying to fix those bugs or so but just said: "hey.. its crashing all the time".
I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too, so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit and you should think if your updates are really that supporting for the team. They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.
However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Sorry if this is wrong, but thats what it looks like to me. And I read lots of stuff on this forum, people who read less even get a worse impression. You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

---

Nice video as always, even if the apps are not really my cup of tea

//Edit: sorry for highjacking the topic, this was not my intention. I also didn't know that you (notaz) were one of the persons who work on the OS / Kernel because I mainly see DJWillis talking on the IRC and I don't check these kind of updates that often neither. However,I still think that some people could misinterpret your posts if they don't give enough context. Sometimes not saying something is better than only talking about one half. I'm not saying you are trying to harm the sales of the device, but in some way you possibly do and I just wanted to point that out before customers drop off.
I also like facts, but "its crashing" (which is something bad in my opinion), is not just as good as: "todays kernel crashes often on my particular dev-unit, however, the previous one worked fine so I might retry tomorrow or fix it myself" ;)

This post has been edited by JayFoxRox: 02 February 2010 - 11:46 PM

[PokeParadox]

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.
It didn't sound like you were trying to fix those bugs or so but just said: "hey.. its crashing all the time".
I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too, so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit and you should think if your updates are really that supporting for the team. They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.
However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Sorry if this is wrong, but thats what it looks like to me. And I read lots of stuff on this forum, people who read less even get a worse impression. You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

---

Nice video as always, even if the apps are not really my cup of tea

I think the point was... the current firmware that Notaz has on HIS specific dev unit is crashing and for that reason he can't test PandoraPanic!. IIRC Notaz actually works on aspects of the FW so it could just be he is in the middle of re-writing some code, etc.

[Adventus]

Quote

Notaz: Aren't you under some NDA or so if you get one of the dev units?

There isn't any NDA in any formal sense.

Quote

However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

I don't think there would be a functioning Pandora if it wasn't for Notaz, He's done alot of the OS work. I just think he's feeling under appreciated (and rightly so), people like Pickle and myself make some nice video's of stuff that is relatively easy (ie ports) and he gets stuck doing the actual labor when he could be working on his own projects (like myself). He has easily contributed 10x the cost of the prototype in work hours.

[Gruso]

Jay, do you realise that without Notaz & DJWillis we probably wouldn't even have an operating system?

[edit] Point made by Adventus.

This post has been edited by Gruso: 02 February 2010 - 10:10 PM

[notaz]

Pleng, on 02 February 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

oh dear. that doesn't sound positive :blink:

It aint that bad, the touchbook doesn't have much developers too (expecting community help). GPH has paid developers, but they lack skill. Both didn't end up with completely unusable devices ;)

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

However its extremly rude to get one of those and then talk bad about it as it could fuckup the sales of the final unit.

So I should go around telling everyone lies about how perfect it is and ignoring the real situation just because I have one prototype and a few boards? There is no way the software will be perfect given the resources we have. In fact I see too much hype all around here, people expecting some god-sent device with everything related to it is perfect and no less. The software will have rough edges, there will be some hardware flaws, we are all going to die (eventually).

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

I doubt the problem is too bad as I found some stable kernel for my beagleboard too,

Where did I claim it was good/bad/whatever? I just said it was crashing, and that happens often in various stages of development, people might want to know that.

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

so this is anti-marketing speech if you ask me, especially if I remember your Dev-Unit topic in which you also talk about the problems your hardware has. You should be more clear that it is a dev unit

Wasn't I clear it was a dev unit there? Yes I'm horrible with marketing, and it's one of things that I hate in general.

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

They give you this extremly expensive prototype (for free probably) and in return they expect that you work on the software front or point out problems, possibly even advertise for the final product by taking videos and photos. The team send you one of these units as they except that the outcome is that the cost of the dev-unit will be returning in form of new customers because of good software.

I don't know how much you are aware about my involvement in this project, but I believe I've invested enough to cover those costs.

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

However, what you did so far is blame the hardware or point out its deficits, not talking much about the positive aspects, blame the software and show basicly nothing.

Oh really? I wonder whose youtube video found it's way to slashdot a while back.

JayFoxRox, on 02 February 2010 - 11:30 PM, said:

You should probably put disclaimers around your posts (Or atleast put them in a proper context and explain all bits like you did in your edit).

I agree with this one, I need some signature I guess. Hm, something in style of "WARNING: bla bla bla..". Maybe somebody can write me one.

--
Sorry for littering this thread with some ego-crap.

[Phawx]

@jayfoxrox

I appreciate your contributions as much as Notaz, so please don't take this a bad way. But I more or less understood what Notaz was saying, I merely wanted to inform him that words on these forums are stretched like putty to fill in the gaps. Sometimes it paints a different picture.

However, I find it VERY refreshing to read Notaz' notes. He is, what I believe, being fair. He is telling it like it is and not sugar coating it. He doesn't need to. If I haven't asked for a refund from all of the delays, the little particulars Notaz is telling us won't really change my mind either.

It's actually the opposite. Notaz is making me realize what I should expect when I get my Pandora. If he didn't give his pro's and con's, I could only go on what Craig has told me. (that bit with him throwing the stylus at the screen) The video that ED showed with how well the stylus snaps in was nice though.

Yes, the case was abused by Craig and then given to Notaz. But still. I appreciate the input from Notaz. The only reason I can see Notaz elaborating is to put some people at ease.

This post has been edited by Phawx: 02 February 2010 - 10:14 PM

[mali]

I agree, Phawx :)
I appreciate Notaz' direct speak, I must admit. Some reality check now and then can only be a good thing :)

[Monk]

notaz, on 02 February 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

So I should go around telling everyone lies about how perfect it is and ignoring the real situation just because I have one prototype and a few boards?

No - plain straight honesty, even (especially?) where inconvenient is far better.

notaz, on 02 February 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

There is no way the software will be perfect given the resources we have. In fact I see too much hype all around here, people expecting some god-sent device with everything related to it is perfect and no less. The software will have rough edges, there will be some hardware flaws, we are all going to die (eventually).

What? Now I'm sad. All of us? Can I be the exception that proves the rule?

notaz, on 02 February 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

I agree with this one, I need some signature I guess. Hm, something in style of "WARNING: bla bla bla..". Maybe somebody can write me one.

It works as-is doesn't it? After all, marketing bs is exactly that - bs. bla bla bla sums it up nicely!

[Enverex]

Anyway, getting back on topic: It seemed to be struggling badly at a few points on Hexen, is that likely to improve over time? (either with the port itself being improved or the Pandora's own software being improved).

[MWeston]

I do my best to show my respect and admiration for Notaz's work with everything he does and whenever I get to make a new Youtube video. Perhaps it isn't enough. I just don't want to sound like a giant brown noser. ;)

It's worth saying again that Notaz's work on the kernel is clearly the reason the device is as advanced as it is today. Sure the hardware may have come along fine with minimal testing as the assembler learned how to solder the boards better but Notaz has helped me develop a comprehensive suite of test software that has helped the assembler perfect their process. So good in fact that they have started building a batch of 1000 this week after tweaking their pilot runs. :)