[mali]

@Topic

(naw)mcx, on 02 February 2010 - 12:10 PM, said:

Quote

EvilDragon1717 Fatih and his friend are constantly phoning up the chinese company to make them work faster. Not easy dealing with chinese companies...

Source
http://twitter.com/EvilDragon1717


Maybe not news worth, but shows there is some life.

Now, how _I'd_ translate this:

The cases haven't been shipped on Saturday and I don't expect MP to start before New Year.
My advice: Occupy your mind with something useful instead of hitting F5

This post has been edited by mali: 02 February 2010 - 11:20 AM

[Xenu]

mali, on 02 February 2010 - 12:16 PM, said:

@Topic

(naw)mcx, on 02 February 2010 - 12:10 PM, said:

Quote

EvilDragon1717 Fatih and his friend are constantly phoning up the chinese company to make them work faster. Not easy dealing with chinese companies...

Source
http://twitter.com/EvilDragon1717


Maybe not news worth, but shows there is some life.

Now, how _I'd_ translate this:

The cases haven't been shipped on Saturday and I don't expect MP to start before New Year.
My advice: Occupy your mind with something useful instead of hitting F5

I want to say something ugly but I'll scream in my head instead.

This post has been edited by Xenu: 02 February 2010 - 11:23 AM

[Monk]

shunun, on 02 February 2010 - 10:55 AM, said:

I think this confirms that you guy's are ignorant. You simply labeled me a stereotype, which is funny. Because you don't even know half the things I know. You aren't educated in everything I am. You have no right to label me. I am making a difference, I volunteer for the Red cross keeping homeless people fed, I talk to them, I know alot about people, alot about society. If you go on living your lives on cruise control, before you know it you'll be old and wishing you'd done something better with all your time. The way I see it, you're better off dying young and having tried.

The thing is... if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck... you might as well call it a duck. People aren't judging you - they're evaluating your behaviour and responding to/commenting on it. Every one of your posts in this thread conforms to a stereotype. Every single one conforms to the "I'm young and I know SO much better than all of you lot, who are idiot adults" stereotype. Every. Single. Post. Especially the ones that refute that stereotype. We know. You want to know why? Because we've said all those things too. Years ago, and for longer than you have (so far).

I'm pleased that, like me, you're actually DOING something about the world, as you see it (volunteer work feeding homeless people, in your case. Teaching children that need the help in mine). It's dissapointing that you're wearing blinkers, but - well, that's something you'll die young and never miss or grow out of as you take in the complexity of the world around you. Chaos theory. The butterfly effect. Nothing is as simple as it seems at first.

Please notice that you've accused "adults" of being ignorant and saying nothing to prove otherwise - while you've behaved like an ignorant youth and said nothing to disprove it. You're labelling US as "ignorant adults" who label you without knowing you... just like you don't know "us". There's a certain delicous irony there... you are doing EXACTLY what you seem to say makes us ignorant.

We don't know half the things you do? I bet we don't. I hope we don't. I bet you don't know half of what I know either. That's just one way in which we're individuals :)

But in a broader sense.... you've never been us. You've never been an adult, with the experience of decades walking the planet or the way the world opens up, like a flower, revealing its complexities only over time. We haven't been YOU, but many of us have matched the same broad stereotype that you are currently exhibiting - we HAVE "been there, done that" so we know how it feels. And we know how pompous adults sounded when we were young. We know how foolish, how weak, how... impotent they seemed. Living their boring lives going to work and coming home and going to sleep and going to work... how pointless! We remember that they didn't even seem to notice how little they understood the world! We can remember how we felt when we were similar to you - and how we changed when we learnt what we hadn't noticed, over the years and decades that followed. Now we can look back on people who were our age when we were young, and think "Ah! So you weren't so stupid after all!". But we still think that people older than us are fuddy-duddies (after all, WE have reached the AGE OF INTELLIGENCE) and we KNOW that people younger than us know less than we do, because we know the kind of things they know PLUS everything we've learnt since.

Put it another way - you're currently 18. I imagine you think you know more than you did when you were 9. If I am right, then when you are 36 you will know even more than you do now, and since you have a strong moral center you will be doing good things, right? They probably won't be the same good things you are doing now, because you will have lived YOUR WHOLE LIFE'S duration over again. There's a lot you can learn in that time. 18 years worth of knowledge. imagine if you could be a whole YOU more informed than you already are. How amazing would that be? If I am wrong, then how can you imagine you know any better than a 9 year old? WHY do you know more than a 9 year old? You don't stop learning at 18. You have not reached your peak yet - you can get more knowledgeable, you can be EVEN MORE. So can we.

[mali]

Any Germans around who can help translating this huge post? *sigh*
So, I'm done translating the important parts.

Quote

Ich habe schon täglichen Kontakt mit Fatih - aber im Moment hören wir von unserem Ansprechpartner täglich dasselbe:
"Der Techniker braucht noch, aber wir melden uns schon sehr sehr bald".
I'm in contact with Fatih daily - but at the moment we hear the same every day from the person we talk to:
"The technician still needs time, but we'll report very soon"

Fatih hat seinen Schlaf ziemlich reduziert, tagsüber arbeitet er normal und in der Nacht fängt er an, stündlich bei denen anzurufen und sie zu nerven. Gerade hat sein Freund nochmal auf chinesisch mit ihnen diskutiert. Er macht richtig Druck, denn das scheint das einzige zu sein, was wirkt. Die vielen vielen Feinheiten haben es ausgemacht... sie sind nun 100%ig zufrieden, sowohl mit Gehäuse als auch Finishing. Und haben uns gesagt, wir werden es ihnen danken, dass es ein wenig gedauert hat, wenn wir das Gehäuse sehen.
Hoffen wir das mal - da aber Chinesen viel von Dankbarkeit halten, könnte das wirklich mal gut sein.
Fatih reduced his sleep considerably, at daytime he works and at night he phones and bugs the Chinese hourly. Just now his friend discussed with them in Chinese. He builds up pressure as it seems the only thing that works. Those many minor tweaks are what take the time... they are 100% pleased now with the case and the finishing. They said we will thank them for the holdup when we finally see the cases. Let's hope so - as Chinese generally consider thankfulness as very important, it might actually be like that.

Die meisten großen Firmen sind permanent vor Ort, wenn sie in China was produzieren lassen. Jetzt weiß ich auch warum - man muss denen wirklich permanent Beine machen.
Im Notfall fliegt Fatih auch wirklich vor Ort - wir haben schon so einige Ideen als Plan B im Kopf.
Die Produktion läuft bis zum 13. Februar (haben wir nachgefragt). Wenn am 08. alles startet, haben wir 4000 Gehäuse. Da das Gehäuse technisch ja schon in Ordnung war, kann Michael das ziemlich fix freigeben, wenn es eintrifft.
Eventuell kann ich in den Neujahrsferien produziert werden - viele chinesische Firmen machen das für ein paar Euro extra, die wären wir in dem Fall auch gewillt, zu zahlen...
Most big companies are permanently on site, when producing in China. Now I know why - you haveto bug them permanently.
Should it be necessary, Fatih will fly to China - we have had this idea for a while as plan B.
MP should run till 13. February(we asked about it). If it starts at the 8th, we'll have 4000 cases. As the case was technically ok already, Michael can give the green light pretty quickly when the samples arrive.
It's eventually possible to produce in the New Year's holiday - many Chinese factories do it for a few bucks extra, I'd be willing to pay in this case.

Wir haben die Bankensperre überlebt, das PayPal-Rückzahlungschaos, ein paar Rechtsstreitigkeiten... wir werden auch die Chinesen überleben. Ist zwar wirklich verdammt ärgerlich, wenn alles bereit liegt und man nur noch auf das eine wartet, aber das gibt uns auch mehr Zeit, sie immer und immer wieder weiter zu nerven bis endlich alles produziert ist.

Macht Euch keine Sorgen, wir machen Druck so gut wir können und versuchen, alles in Bewegung zu setzen, damit das endlich abgeschlossen wird. Wir selber wollen mindestens genauso gerne an Euch ausliefern wie Ihr sie haben wollt.
Ist schließlich auch eine nervliche Belastung für uns :)

Aber wir bringen das durch. Es gibt keine Mauer, die wir nicht durchbrechen könnten :D :dash: ;)

Man darf auch nicht vergessen, dass bisher alles kredit- und investorenlos abläuft. Auch da kann würde man bestimmt noch Hilfe bekommen können, ein Tod des Projekts kommt nicht in Frage :)

Also, noch ist die Hoffnung auf die Produktion vor Neujahr nicht gestorben. Oder in Neujahr, wenn sie die paar Euro extra akzeptieren.

Ich persönlich wäre auch schon ein wenig zufriedener, wenn es nur 1000 Gehäuse werden - dann müssen zwar einige noch ein bisschen länger warten, aber allein die Tatsache, wirklich echte funktionierende Pandoras zu haben, die nur noch massenproduziert werden müssen, würde mir das Herz doch deutlich erleichtern.

Chronologically this tweet comes next:

(naw)mcx, on 02 February 2010 - 12:39 PM, said:

"now they are 100% sure, it's perfect. he will send the samples tomorrow morning." It's night in China already. Let's hope...

This post has been edited by mali: 02 February 2010 - 12:00 PM

[(naw)mcx]

Quote

So, once the hope of the production before the New Year has not died. Or in the New Year, when they accept the few dollars extra.

That's all we need to care about :)

[borgqueenx]

Fact is, that these threads may suddenly see the light, because a post of a op member, but that this wont get us much futher in the case of the case of pandora.

[Monk]

Bosbeetle, on 02 February 2010 - 11:13 AM, said:

:) I am trying (and still consider myself young)

I still appreciate it when people call me "young man". It doesn't happen often, but it still happens often enough to make me smile.



Hmmm... I'm starting to think that I just like smiling.

I think the best bet is to imagine that full case MP won't start until after the Chinese New Year. If it does that would be a pleasant surprise but... I prefer pessimism to optimism. Optimists go through life expecting that "hings will work out OK" and frequently find that things don't go as well as they'd like. Pessimists may work a little harder, believing that things will fall apart if they don't, but when THEY are proven wrong it's a pleasant surprise not a nasty one!

borgqueenx, on 02 February 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

Fact is, that these threads may suddenly see the light, because a post of a op member, but that this wont get us much futher in the case of the case of pandora.

LOL - it sounds like a murder mystery! Pandora on the Orient Express...

This post has been edited by Monk: 02 February 2010 - 11:32 AM

[proflogic]

Monk, on 02 February 2010 - 03:26 AM, said:

mali, on 02 February 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

@Monk
I'm repeatedly impressed by your skills explaining stuff :)

See, now I'm all abashed and want to go back and edit everything to remove any potential barbs, just so I can avoid losing any shine off my fresh coat of respectability! Nah, not gonna happen :) but thanks indeed :D always nice to be appreciated.

shunun, on 02 February 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

Man... Did you even read what I wrote? You should Join a socialist alliance, then you may realize that there are answers to all the problems. I hope you see your ignorance.

See, now, the reason that it's funny is... that's EXACTLY what you'd expect someone who doesn't have much experience to say.

No, seriously, calm down a bit and chat. Give the benefit of the doubt for a while to your peers. Stop calling them ignorant, be nice instead of nasty.

Sigh - this could be so much better with nuance, but most of all with live feedback. Seeing a nod as somethign dawns, or a shake of the head as it fails to penetrate, would help guide the next sentence. but you really ARE acting out a very well known stereotype here, and while I find it charming I doubt it can go on being so - typically we'd be heading towards some anger soon if the direction isn't changed. Frustration, and anger, is nowhere near as rewarding as civilised conversation, IMO.

I don't really mean to fuel this more, but it seems many people truly are ignorant and swayed easily, particularly with respect to national issues. Perhaps it is simply a human thing--we get so caught up in our passions and beliefs that we hardly look for rationality. Moreover, doing the research to make sound arguments takes time, something quite scarce in adult life.

To illustrate what I mean, you could recall the US presidential election and what the news media chose to emphasize, what they understood would get the attention of the most viewers. Actually, I like the way Craig Ferguson explains it. Petty squabbles and lame character attacks took precedence over solutions to issues. Even debates about issues are made into ridiculous posturing games! Is that what people care most to see?

That kind of thing is what provokes kids with a lot of drive to think adults are ignorants. They might not realize that many of the other kids are quite apathetic, though, so they've got the wrong idea. It's not an old vs. young thing at all. ;)

Perhaps it's more a problem of experts. We can't all be qualified to evaluate solutions to every problem; some degree of ignorance is economically necessary. So we need someone to trust... but how can you know who to trust? And how much trust is too much?


I'd say... trust the OP team to put effort into delivering your Pandora to you as quickly as they can, but don't trust them to know when anything is going to happen. Too much not under their control. ;)

[Vlynndar]

mali, on 02 February 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

Any Germans around who can help translating this huge post? *sigh*
I'll start

Quote

Ich habe schon täglichen Kontakt mit Fatih - aber im Moment hören wir von unserem Ansprechpartner täglich dasselbe:
"Der Techniker braucht noch, aber wir melden uns schon sehr sehr bald".
I'm in contact with Fatih daily - but at the moment we hear the same every day from the person we talk to:
"The technician still needs time, but we'll report very soon"

Fatih hat seinen Schlaf ziemlich reduziert, tagsüber arbeitet er normal und in der Nacht fängt er an, stündlich bei denen anzurufen und sie zu nerven. Gerade hat sein Freund nochmal auf chinesisch mit ihnen diskutiert. Er macht richtig Druck, denn das scheint das einzige zu sein, was wirkt. Die vielen vielen Feinheiten haben es ausgemacht... sie sind nun 100%ig zufrieden, sowohl mit Gehäuse als auch Finishing. Und haben uns gesagt, wir werden es ihnen danken, dass es ein wenig gedauert hat, wenn wir das Gehäuse sehen.
Hoffen wir das mal - da aber Chinesen viel von Dankbarkeit halten, könnte das wirklich mal gut sein.
Fatih sleeps a lot less, he works his job by day, and at night he calls hourly and gets nervous. His friend has spoken with the Chinese. He puts a lot of pressure on them, as that seems the only thing that works.They fixed the small details... They're now 100% satisfied, both with the cases as with the finishing. And they've told us that we'll be thankful to them, that it took a little time, when we see the cases.
We sure hope so, but as the Chinese value thankfullness, they (the cases) could really be good.

Die meisten großen Firmen sind permanent vor Ort, wenn sie in China was produzieren lassen. Jetzt weiß ich auch warum - man muss denen wirklich permanent Beine machen.
Im Notfall fliegt Fatih auch wirklich vor Ort - wir haben schon so einige Ideen als Plan B im Kopf.
Die Produktion läuft bis zum 13. Februar (haben wir nachgefragt). Wenn am 08. alles startet, haben wir 4000 Gehäuse. Da das Gehäuse technisch ja schon in Ordnung war, kann Michael das ziemlich fix freigeben, wenn es eintrifft.
Eventuell kann ich in den Neujahrsferien produziert werden - viele chinesische Firmen machen das für ein paar Euro extra, die wären wir in dem Fall auch gewillt, zu zahlen...
The most big companies are permanently in China, when they produce something there. Now I know why, you really must (hard to translate, comes down to 'work'). In the worst case scenario, Fatih will fly to China - we have a couple of Plans B in mind.
Production ends as 13th February (we checked). If everything starts on the 8th, we'll have 4000 cases. Because the cases fit already, Michael can greenlight it quickly when it arrives. (When he gets it)
If needed, I can be produced in the New Years Holiday. (wait, what? He means the cases, anyway, I guess). -A lot of Chinese firms can do that for a couple of bucks extra, and in that case we're prepared to pay it.

Kippen wird sowas das Projekt nicht, keine Sorge. Kippen würde uns teurer kommen, als eine neue, nicht-chinesische Gehäusefirma zu suchen...
The project won't fall over anyway, don't worry. That would be more expensive than finding a new, non-chinese moulding company...

Wir haben die Bankensperre überlebt, das PayPal-Rückzahlungschaos, ein paar Rechtsstreitigkeiten... wir werden auch die Chinesen überleben. Ist zwar wirklich verdammt ärgerlich, wenn alles bereit liegt und man nur noch auf das eine wartet, aber das gibt uns auch mehr Zeit, sie immer und immer wieder weiter zu nerven bis endlich alles produziert ist.
We survived the bank-freezing, the PayPal-refund chaos, a couple of litigations(I don't speak legalese, help?)... We well also survive the Chinese. It's really damned annyoing, when everything is within reach and you only have to wait for that one thing, but that gives us more time to worry again and again until everthing is produced at last.

Macht Euch keine Sorgen, wir machen Druck so gut wir können und versuchen, alles in Bewegung zu setzen, damit das endlich abgeschlossen wird. Wir selber wollen mindestens genauso gerne an Euch ausliefern wie Ihr sie haben wollt.
Ist schließlich auch eine nervliche Belastung für uns :)
Don't worry, were pressurizing them as well as we can, and try to get everything rolling, so that that is finally over. We want to deliver as much as you want to receive.
It's also a load for us (metaphorically.) :)

Aber wir bringen das durch. Es gibt keine Mauer, die wir nicht durchbrechen könnten :D :dash: ;)
But we'll get it out. There is no wall we can't break through :D ;)

Man darf auch nicht vergessen, dass bisher alles kredit- und investorenlos abläuft. Auch da kann würde man bestimmt noch Hilfe bekommen können, ein Tod des Projekts kommt nicht in Frage :)
Don't forget that almost everything goes without credit or investors. It can be we can get more help. This project won't die, no question about it :)

Also, noch ist die Hoffnung auf die Produktion vor Neujahr nicht gestorben. Oder in Neujahr, wenn sie die paar Euro extra akzeptieren.
Also, the hope for production before New Years isn't dead yet. Or even IN New Year, if they accept the extra bucks.

Ich persönlich wäre auch schon ein wenig zufriedener, wenn es nur 1000 Gehäuse werden - dann müssen zwar einige noch ein bisschen länger warten, aber allein die Tatsache, wirklich echte funktionierende Pandoras zu haben, die nur noch massenproduziert werden müssen, würde mir das Herz doch deutlich erleichtern.
I personally am also reasonably happy if it will only be 1000 cases - then a few must wait a little longer, but having everything to get real, functioning Pandoras that only need to be be mass-produces, really lightens my heart.

This post has been edited by Vlynndar: 02 February 2010 - 12:04 PM

[Bosbeetle]

fatih is putting pressure on the chinese, maybe even going there. If the case gets a green light the 8th of February it is in time to make 4000 before the new year.

ED is getting fed up with the chinese, they have a plan B they wont let the project 'fallover' or die.

This post has been edited by Bosbeetle: 02 February 2010 - 11:47 AM

[Xenu]

(naw)mcx, on 02 February 2010 - 12:29 PM, said:

Quote

So, once the hope of the production before the New Year has not died. Or in the New Year, when they accept the few dollars extra.

That's all we need to care about :)

I had a few pancakes and played some ukulele. I feel better now.

[Monk]

proflogic, on 02 February 2010 - 11:35 AM, said:

I don't really mean to fuel this more

I'm not sure you did with that post, which seemed excellently considered and phrased to me. Yes - "The Masses" CAN be quite worryingly simplistic in their tastes, behaviour etc. but that has nothing to do with age at all. As for politics... that's all just a game anyway isn't it? Doing the work of government, properly, morally, would be awfully hard work. I can't help but think that only a tiny minority of people want that much hard work rather than lusting after the power of the position - in which case, basically, if someone runs for a political position they are probably BY DEFINITION one of the people who should be kept out of power. We often don't vote to get the best person - all too often we vote to try and keep the worst people OUT! Give us better candidates!

The media in particular tries to appeal to the lowest common denominator, because it's actually commerce. It's about "sales" - viewers bums on chairs, newspapers bought, and so on. It's not about informing the people, it's about taking money from them - which is why it's always so sensationalist. I often despair when I see a bit of scientific "news" reported and I realise that I knew that when I was a kid. Must be they pick something out of the hat on slow news days to fill the science column :(

[Vlynndar]

My translation is updated.

[Bosbeetle]

EvilDragon1717: Fresh news from Fatihs chinese speaking friend. He phoned with the company
EvilDragon1717: he wanted me to explain you that you will thank him when you see the case he had to make a lot of working on current mould. and tested a lot
EvilDragon1717: "now they are 100% sure, it's perfect. he will send the samples tomorrow morning." It's night in China already. Let's hope...

[mcobit]

I've got daily contact with Fatih but at the moment we hear the same everyday: "The technicians need some more time, but we will call you soon".

Fatih is short on sleep for a while now, during daytime he works normaly an at night he begins to call them every hour an is getting on their nerves. His friend discussed with them in chinese and he puts huge pressure on them. That seems to be the only thing, that is working. The little things made it possible,... they are now 100% satisfied with the case and the finishing. And they said we will be thankful, even if it took a little longer, when we see the case.
We hope that this time it's true. Chinese belive in thankfulness, so it could be true this time.

Most of the big companies are in china permanently, when they produce in china. Now I know why - you have to kick their asses permanently.

In case of emergency Fatih will fly there - we have some thoughts for a plan B now in our heads.
The production will run untill february 13th (we asked about that). When everything starts on the 8th, we will end up having 4000 cases. Because the case was technically allright before, there will be no huge delay with michael giving his green light whe it arrives.

The whole project won't be cancelled, don't worry. It would be much more expensive for us than search a new non-chinese case-company...

We survived the bank-crisis, the paypal-problem, some juristic differences... and we will survive the chinese. This is all very disappointing, when everything is ready and we only wait for that one final part, but that gives us more time to kick them till everything is produced.

Don't worry, we are putting pressure on them as much as we can, and try to do everything to finish it. We ourselves want to deliver to you as much as you want it.
Infact, this is nervous condition for us too.

But we will get through all this. There is no wall we can't break through :D :dash: ;D

Don#t forget that until now we have not aquired any credit or investors for this project. And we could still get help from this. So a "dead" of the project is out of question :)

So the hope for the production befor the new year is not ded. Or maybe they will produce during the holidays for some euro extra.

I personally would be at least a bit satisfied, when it will be only 1000 cases - then some of you would have to wait a little longer, but the fact, to have some real, working Pandoras, that only have to be mass-produced, would lighten my heart.

This post has been edited by mcobit: 02 February 2010 - 11:52 AM