[Screeny]

Have you seen this new photo?

[MWeston]

Madcad77, on 07 February 2010 - 02:36 AM, said:

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Thanks Madcad77. I tend to agree with you here since there has to be a reason for the way things are. I'm still up assembling units as I've made some promises for the week and I am noticing that several of the parts feel like they are almost dripping with grease (release agent). I even started wiping a few off. These came right out of the mold and into the shipping box.

[user47alpha]

So lets look at the facts:
1. The company is fully paid.
2. The company is in China.
3. The company thinks about us as a super small order, maybe they have googled us and know more.
4. Rev2->Rev3 had no giant improvements.
5. The Chinese called Rev3 "perfect".

From 4 and 5, there are four possibilities:
I) They do not work anymore at the molds.
II) They cannot provide better quality.
III) The quality is "perfect", if you see real massproduced units.
IV) Future revisions will get better and better.

If you look at 1-3 you see, that it would not be a good idea to piss off the company. They can simply stop responding. There is no "profitable business-relationship" for them. They got all they can get from OP.

So I agree with a lot of people here when I say: Produce them! Let's see what they really look. If your testsample has final quality: Screw the review magazines.

Rev2-Rev3 took something like 6 weeks. Please don't waste another two months for "small changes" which will be done till the "15th" and provide us with "perfect" cases.


EDIT: Oh, and OP, hurry up! If MW waits till Monday, it's Tuesday in China and they won't start before Wednesday. But if you call them 7 am (Chinese time) on Monday, they start on Monday!

This post has been edited by user47alpha: 07 February 2010 - 10:25 AM

[Aries]

I wonder if some type of spray paint would do the job to give it a nice matte finish. Would it be a problem for the assembling process? What do you think?

[hitbyambulance]

my opinion: i trust OP Team will make the most informed decision in this situation, and i will go with what's decided.

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

Screeny, on 07 February 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

Have you seen this new photo?

Rev2 case looks better than rev1 and 3 IMHO, but the hinge seemed to always be a problem though...

I can do with some scratches here and there, I couldn't care less about ugly colors and stuff like that, it could even give some charm to these 1st batch Pandoras :)

We're talking about an homebrew project after all, and future batches will be better :)

The only thing I am really worried about is that hinge thing, does it deeply affect the quality of the console ?

If the answer is yes, then it would be a RED LIGHT for me, because it's not acceptable, period.

If the answer is no, then it could be a GREEN LIGHT I think :)

Bye, have a nice Sunday, Magic Sam

This post has been edited by Magic Sam: 07 February 2010 - 11:18 AM

[Kyosys]

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

[amk]

user47alpha, on 07 February 2010 - 12:21 PM, said:

So lets look at the facts:
1. The company is fully paid.
2. The company is in China.
3. The company thinks about us as a super small order, maybe they have googled us and know more.
4. Rev2->Rev3 had no giant improvements.
5. The Chinese called Rev3 "perfect".

From 4 and 5, there are four possibilities:
I) They do not work anymore at the molds.
II) They cannot provide better quality.
III) The quality is "perfect", if you see real massproduced units.
IV) Future revisions will get better and better.

If you look at 1-3 you see, that it would not be a good idea to piss off the company. They can simply stop responding. There is no "profitable business-relationship" for them. They got all they can get from OP.

So I agree with a lot of people here when I say: Produce them! Let's see what they really look. If your testsample has final quality: Screw the review magazines.

Rev2-Rev3 took something like 6 weeks. Please don't waste another two months for "small changes" which will be done till the "15th" and provide us with "perfect" cases.


EDIT: Oh, and OP, hurry up! If MW waits till Monday, it's Tuesday in China and they won't start before Wednesday. But if you call them 7 am (Chinese time) on Monday, they start on Monday!

I do agree with you, I think we got a bit too involved. And The OP definitely has more experience in this field than the most of us.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to receiving my 3500-4000 order before easter ;)

[Canguy]

shunun, on 07 February 2010 - 04:39 AM, said:

You guy's need to cool it a bit.. this arguing isn't going to get things done faster. What we need to do is wait until monday and hope that everything's good enough for the factory to make some cases. And if not, then we vent our frustration ;)

But if they cool it then who will entertain us for the week-end?

[tsh]

I'd tend to guess that the intent of shipping these cases was to demonstrate mechanical fixes to the mould, based on whatever feedback was given last time round.
Even the bad fixing/crack in the lid isn't a show stopper for me, but I'm also open to persuasion that this is the type of defect that is to be expected with a batch of 20 cases (machine not fully up to temperature, plastic mix not 100%). Already we seem to have resolved that the final finishing did not occur (but that would actually hide blemishes, so there is some sense in mechanical samples not using it).

1. Take 500/1000 cases (which in themselves are not worth much, 10,000 were ordered in total)
2. Clarify that this is to approve the final production quality.
3. Hope these 500 cases are 'perfect' - at this stage no-one can judge that.
4. if the cases are not perfect, ship only to people who are happy with the cases 'as is'
5. case replacement remains a cost option, maybe discounted for the first 500 (e.g. free fitting or half price)

I don't see a large number asking for cases as they are at the moment, and it is probably fair to expect customers to find out (read the forums) and agree rather than a mailout to everyone who is ordered. It might help to roll out the userbase slowly too.

[Esn]

MWeston, on 07 February 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

Madcad77, on 07 February 2010 - 02:36 AM, said:

From what I have seen of these new mouldings, your moulding company needs to run a small batch to validate thier parameters, things like mould temperature, injection pressures, cycle times etc.

These coupled with venting added in the correct positions (tiny modifications 1- 2 days max) will sort out your sinkages, short fills etc.

The greasy finish you mention is most probably due to excessive release agent used when running the mould for the first time (reduces the risk of the moulding sticking in the tool).

I have been designing plastic components for over 10 years now, and alot of your issues with Chinese moulding companies are well known, regardless which company you chose over there, they just work diferently to us.

I am very optimistic though, when these parts are run to the correct production processes, perhaps with extra venting, your cosmetic issues will be resolved.

Thanks Madcad77. I tend to agree with you here since there has to be a reason for the way things are. I'm still up assembling units as I've made some promises for the week and I am noticing that several of the parts feel like they are almost dripping with grease (release agent). I even started wiping a few off. These came right out of the mold and into the shipping box.

Finally, a bit of optimism...

Anyway, I'm resigned to waiting at this point.

I don't care too much about perfectly straight edges, but I don't like the discoloration and the hinge thing.

[Wootson]

If there is still grease on the cases, this can only mean one thing: no finishing layer. These cases come straight out of the mold and were then put into a box and shipped to OpenPandora. Chinese must have thought that OpenPandora only wanted to see the build quality (which I reckon IS very good at the moment), and not the finishing layer. This layer could not be added in the time that's left before Chinese New Year, so they just send out the unfinished cases instead.

The cases look quite dull black, so the finishing layer is definitely not on there yet. The scratches and all that would then also be gone. Only thing weird about it are the little broken pieces at the hinge area. This can also be that way because these were the first few cases that were made in that mold. Maybe something got stuck in the mold. They also managed to get these problems on the first revision and later eliminated that in the second one. So it is most surely not a broken or damaged mold.

If OpenPandora ever wants to see the final-final-final quality of these 3rd revision cases, they just have to go on and trust this Chinese manufacturer. There is no other choice. Roll the press!

[Kangal]

Kyosys, on 07 February 2010 - 09:19 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

Cancelling? Wait for the week and find out about their decision, that's what I'm gonna do.
If I feel that I dont want to wait longer, and they decide they want to spend time getting better molds, then I'll cancel.
Here's what I did in the meantime to ease the stress!

Bought a grey PSP-2000 on eBay for $AU145, good condition came with a cool case.
Hacked it with latest CFW. Installed web browsers, flash players, themes and homebrew games.
Also backed up the 6 games that came with it.
Bought a 8Gb card, loaded it with all the iso games, (22) homebrew games, (~400)music and (3)movies.
Right now just downloading new iso's (got 5, still searching for the other 8 I want).
It feels like I will have much more fun with this than Pandora (the huge library of games)
I think its benefits will outweigh the disadv (no 2nd Nub, no word processing--> i only word process on my laptop ne ways)

[Sphinxter]

Kyosys, on 07 February 2010 - 03:19 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm canceling my preorder. Thanks for all the fish.

DIBS!

[jumpman]

Well, well, well I've been asleep 8 hours, and I see much hasn't changed! LOL :P

I wake up and see Michael has made a few replies to comments and questions, which all seem very sound! The reply to going to China and punching in faces is still putting a smile on my face. I haven't laughed that hard on these boards EVER. Some of you guys are way nuts, but I love you all.

Today is a new day, and I feel refreshed and renewed! What's going on is a little discerning, but not the end of the world. For those of us who have been waiting 2+ years, this is just another hiccup in the Openpandora Ltd. crazy life cycle(Paypal,banks,nubs, you all know what I mean)! For those who want to cancel, I understand completly(I may join you somewhere down the line). There are no hard feelings. For those of us choosing to wait, let's see what the mould company has to say later today or monday. I believe Craig said Fatih is off on sundays, so even though the Chinese will be up and running later today, depending on where you all are in the world, our connection may not be able to talk until later on tommorow!

I remember reading early on from 1 or more team members, that the sample case process would NEVER match the big run quality. I don't know where that assuption changed, but I think if it is true, whomever said it originally should restate it for the forums! I always assumed that these test cases where just to make sure components fit, and that buttons and keys funtioned properly. The factory came very close with rev 1, and then with case 2 got it perfect. So, from what I remember reading, this should be of no suprise to no one! Once the functionality was on point, they should have been giving the green light for a production run!

I'm no mould expert, my only similar experiance is with concrete in construction! Which uses forms(moulds), and they have to be sprayed also with a releasing agent, so the form can be remove(concrete is to heavy to move, so the forms are removed from the crete). Similar problems happen when small things are done(curbs, sidewalks, ect,) Tempature and cold play a part in how the concrete cures(dries). When huge casinos are done, they take samples on every floor(and from every pour), and perfect the process right in the begining, as they can't afford for the lower floors to not support higher floors due to poor quality! Which has happened! The new City Center Resort here in vegas, had one building have to stop 10-15 floors lower than intended, due to a lower grade of concrete that was use(someones @#$%up), that wasn't designed to weight specifications! I'm quessing the plastic pellets used in moulds come in thousands of varities, for differant specs!

Everyone gets a fresh new 24 hour day, no matter race, religion, or location! So unless a few of our forum members past away last night, take your new day, and lets start on a positive note. It's OK, to be pissed at the end of the day, but you should try and start the new day in a better place!

Chris