217 replies to this topic

[Exophase]

Exophase has Temper, the best PC-engine emu ever but has hit a snag with WiFi and won't release.

You've got the story all wrong. It's more like the wifi core is working fine, I just need a few more days to get the GUI in place and polish up a couple things and it'll be ready for release. Lately I've been busy with other things and this is the sort of stuff I'm not enthusiastic about doing, so it takes a little longer than usual. I'll also be out of town this Friday and weekend. But it's really close to being released, don't think that it's on some kind of indefinite hold.

To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc.

And this is why I don't rush a port out, to get simple usability concerns like this taken care of.

Re: gpSP - there are like three people looking at it, it's just kind of tricky to get working. notaz could probably do it with his eyes closed, but his plate is super full right now. As said, I'm definitely not working on it - this isn't just a matter of being lazy or stubborn; since I'm actually really serious about doing another GBA emulator I see working on something like gpSP as in direct conflict to that. Time is better spent on the longer term but more meaningful investment, and I don't want to exactly write two competing pieces of software.

[DaveC]

Exophase has Temper, the best PC-engine emu ever but has hit a snag with WiFi and won't release.

You've got the story all wrong. It's more like the wifi core is working fine, I just need a few more days to get the GUI in place and polish up a couple things and it'll be ready for release. Lately I've been busy with other things and this is the sort of stuff I'm not enthusiastic about doing, so it takes a little longer than usual. I'll also be out of town this Friday and weekend. But it's really close to being released, don't think that it's on some kind of indefinite hold.

And this is why I don't rush a port out, to get simple usability concerns like this taken care of.

Ok, last I heard wifi was holding it up.

Actually for the GUI your was one of the easier ones to use. You seem to be at the other end, opposite of port-and-run, you want to release perfect but that takes allot longer. Not a bad thing I suppose, just hopefully it isn't like months away.

[hdonk]

...
To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

I'm trying to get the QT front end for CaPrICe done, but I seem to have taken over porting Firefox and Comix. If you'd rather do them I'll get right back on that UI...

[DaveC]

...
To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

I'm trying to get the QT front end for CaPrICe done, but I seem to have taken over porting Firefox and Comix. If you'd rather do them I'll get right back on that UI...

That reminds me of other thing. Some of these interfaces rely heavily on linux, window managers and other external bloat. I think that menus should be self contained so that they will work no matter what you are using. It is conceivable that a version of minimenu for example could be released in the future that is fast booting without all of the linux bloat.

Does your frontend work with a d-pad or does it NEED to use the touchscreen? That is something to consider.

Edited by DaveC, 08 July 2010 - 06:08 AM.

[Jdbye]

You made a lot of good points, and just staying away for a while definitely makes the wait much easier. I waited a long time before I could get a GP2X (no credit card, only PayPal, which none of the online stores selling the GP2X that I found took), though it wasn't the same kind of wait. But I kind of just forgot about the GP2X for a while. Eventually though a local online store started selling the GP2X so I ordered it from there with COD since I didn't have a credit card at that time. I already paid for the Pandora, so I know I'll get it, but being unsure about exactly when and knowing it'll take at least 3 months is slightly frustrating.
I can wait, though I'm far from the most patient person in the world, in fact I'm rather impatient, but I know I'll get it and I know it'll be awesome, and that's what matters, if I keep thinking of not knowing when I'm going to get it, it makes the wait worse, so it's better to just concentrate on the good things.
The Pandora might end up replacing my laptop on the go - but I'll have to try it first to decide if it can replace my laptop or not. However it's definitely looking great so far, and built in gaming controls is something my laptop can't offer, nor do I want to lug a USB controller around with it.

Of course, how bad the wait is for you depends on what you want it for. The Pandora can already do more than I originally expected of it when it was first announced. I never thought it would have a full desktop, I just wanted it for N64/PSX emulation and older. Now I want it for video playback too, but that's not really important to me. It's cool that the Pandora runs Firefox (not to mention all the other desktop apps it runs), it certainly has potential to replace a laptop. It can't really do anything that my laptop + a USB controller can't (which is one of the reasons I can wait), but it's a hell of a lot smaller and has about 3 times as much battery life as both my laptop batteries combined, plus it's a lot easier to pick up and play anytime.

And about dev units not being put to use - they still have a chance to redeem themselves (or maybe they've been secretly working on something), but if they really have no plans to code anything for the Pandora they should give the hardware to someone who will.

But yeah, if you're impatient, it might not be a good idea to read the forums every day. I'm trying as hard as I can to resist but I'm addicted to Pandora news

Somewhat off-topic: This forum is so active it's ridiculous, I love it. That probably means there's a lot of interest in the Pandora, hurry up and build those Pandoras before everyone gives up! I know the factory is slowing you down, but as long as you do everything you can to speed up production. I'm sure development will be a lot more active once more than just a few hundred people get their hands on one - and that's key for the success of the Pandora.

Edited by Jdbye, 08 July 2010 - 06:15 AM.

[Adventus]

no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.)

As was mentioned in the mupen thread, for emulators that work with X11 I'm pretty sure you can make a script which sets the CPU speed and map it to a button. I'm sure if you ask for one, some one will make it pretty easy.

To me I have to say I am a bit dissapointed by the menus in the emus. No button configs, bad ROM selectors have you weaving your way through a cryptic linuxy directory tree everytime you load them, no overclock functions built in (loading that separate app everytime you want to change speeds is a PITA.) Then some menus REQUIRE you to pull out the stylus and use the touchscreen because the coder didn't feel like changing the interface to be useable with a d-pad etc. With the port itself from the GP2X being fairly straight forward you would think time would be spent spiffing up menus and adding useability/intuitive options. To me that is my biggest dissapointment, many of the emus are simply a pain to use. It can take minutes by the time you load and set CPU speed app, then go through the tree to find your ROM etc(I swear not knowing linux in the beginning it took me 10 minutes once to load a ROM because I couldn't find the correct MMBLK1123, mnt,mm,menublk1/media/pandora/menu or whatever the hell it was and just had to keep guessing at things) . Look and feel and ease of use makes a big difference in a device. That is probably why Apple has such tight control over apps. I would hope over time these menus will get better and some kind of loose standard will be used like user selectable button configs, ROM path saving, clock settings etc. LOTS of work is needed in the interface department. If I could code I would contribute here and fix all of the menus where source was available.

If you could code you might realise:
1. IMO Making menus is possibly the most boring thing a coder can do. Any lower level programmer (AKA someone who makes an emulator) who is working for free would much prefer to spend their time using their talents.
2. It's not that easy. Most menus are based around QT/GTK (which are large libraries) and can be really messy. They also impose a standard input mechanism designed for PC, which is why you might need to use the mouse for some things. It may not even be possible to changes this without modifying GTK.
3. Just because it worked on GP2X doesn't mean it'll be a super quick port to Pandora.

Another issue specific to mupen, is I'm not sure if i want to modify the mupen core (including GUI, rom loading, etc) very much, i mean it seems pretty likely that Ari64's work will be integrated into the PC mupen64plus and then we could have "official" releases and not fork the project. Ofcourse i've already forked gles2n64 so i have no qualms messing with it.

That reminds me of other thing. Some of these interfaces rely heavily on linux, window managers and other external bloat. I think that menus should be self contained so that they will work no matter what you are using. It is conceivable that a version of minimenu for example could be released in the future that is fast booting without all of the linux bloat.

I think this is a bad idea. The whole point of the "linux bloat" is to give a standard interface to the programs.

[TylerAW]

I would like to say I tried a netbook that could do these emulators and everything and all though it could run Windows games fine it was not what I had in mind as a Pandora replacement. I ended up taking it back because doing these tasks brought down battery life by a lot, I could not fit it in my pocket and no gaming controls lol.

[Evil Star]

[Bosbeetle]

Where are the twelve year old snotty nerds that start learning code and bringing out crappy games. We must nourish the future generation, help them set up dev environments and let them learn by falling and standing up again. These are the guys that eventially will bring us the awesome software! the ones that will make a pandora emulator for the xbox2048 and the ones that will baffle us with insane ideas.

[Lancer-X]

Where are the twelve year old snotty nerds that start learning code and bringing out crappy games.

Sorry, I'm still waiting for my Pandora!

[Bosbeetle]

Where are the twelve year old snotty nerds that start learning code and bringing out crappy games.

Sorry, I'm still waiting for my Pandora!

You'll get it eventually

[Matthias_H]

I can't really explain how seeing this after another 16 hour day makes me feel.

With all due respect for your feelings, but WHY ON EARTH don't you invest the daily 20 seconds that would be needed for an OFFICIAL statement of the sort, "Today we built X units, we shipped Y, and while we were at it, we fixed issue Z". If you are neither building nor shipping them, invest 20 seconds in communicating what you have done for 16 hours. Otherwise, how are we (with our limited understanding of the business) supposed to guess anything other than "Postman didn't come today. Checked e-mail, then scratched my balls for 15h59m".

[Bosbeetle]

I can't really explain how seeing this after another 16 hour day makes me feel.

With all due respect for your feelings, but WHY ON EARTH don't you invest the daily 20 seconds that would be needed for an OFFICIAL statement of the sort, "Today we built X units, we shipped Y, and while we were at it, we fixed issue Z". If you are neither building nor shipping them, invest 20 seconds in communicating what you have done for 16 hours. Otherwise, how are we (with our limited understanding of the business) supposed to guess anything other than "Postman didn't come today. Checked e-mail, then scratched my balls for 15h59m".

ED already mentioned that craig was getting 400 lids ready, so they can be quick when the boards arrive on wednesday (probably) While ED himselfs was soldering 800 speakers to 400 lcd cables.

How is that to little info?

Edited by Bosbeetle, 08 July 2010 - 10:24 AM.

[trix]

Wow, I took off for awhile due to the repetitiveness of posts, then came back thinking it would be different now that some Pandora's have started shipping. I should have known better.

It boils down to this, (as has been explained a gazillion times in a gazillion threads) the Pandora is not for everyone, if you have trouble figuring out why you'd prefer it over a netbook/psp/ipod/ipad/iphone/ihateapple/pc/ds/umpc/kindle/yourmom then it wasn't made for you. Go get the device that fits you better.

For the rest of us, the Pandora does exactly what we need it to do. Which, for me, is freaking everything. Granted, as I don't have mine quite yet, I am not qualified to say how well it meets my expectations, but if it can do what everyone who has one says it can, then I am more then satisfied with it.

In fact, ever since I learned about this project I have been using it as my inspiration to get my shit together and turn myself into a real programmer, instead of just an uneducated douche that can only bugfix other people's code and make noob stuff like console text games. In two more months™ I start my first semester of college with a whole bunch of programming related courses on the books, and intend to use those courses (C++, python, unix, some EE stuff, etc) to practice primarily on the Pandora. The Pandora is my inspiration, and I intend to make it my first milestone, to conquer it and unlock it's true potential while I get better and better at it. Also, I've never beaten Final Fantasy 1 with a party of 4 white mages.

People keep in mind that not even a quarter of the first batch has shipped yet. What you see as half assed (ps1, n64, etc) software support, is just the beginning! And, an AMAZING beginning!! People have busted there ass getting this thing in amazing shape, before most people that want one even have it! Just wait, thousands more will come out and will get to people, and lots of devs and aspiring devs, in fact MOST devs that want one, still do not have one. Who wants to code for something they don't even have? Have some goddamn patience!

I would bet my bank account that in 2 years these times with the Pandora will seem extremely primitive by comparison, I feel confident, with my experience with open source communities (I'm a huge linux/bsd nut), that what we have today where barely anyone even has a unit yet, that so much will change and improve that in even 5 years we wont consider the Pandora obsolete, but instead still be realizing just how incredible the potential really is!

All that and I'm not normally an optimistic person. To me it seems logical based on what I have seen of the trends in open source and consoles.

- trix

[raul]

It's quite simple in that humans like buying things, especially gadgets, but the love is soon lost. The Pandora to me was meant to be a device for playing retro games - it sort of got my interest back in the memories I have of the old days. Whilst following the Pandora, I hardly played old games on either the GP32 or PSP as I was saving the experience for the Pandora. But now when I play an old game, it's sort of like "bah, this game is not the way I remembered it. It was fun back then, now it's just bah". I suspect many people will feel the same.

Yeah that's exactly how I feel, but you know I discovered what is the "bah" factor for me, When I was a kid, and I was heavily into gaming, I used to play with my cousin, but now playing alone is not the same. Not only I'm older but also the way you used to play counts (all night, with a cousin/brother).

It is not the same, We all want to re-live, we all want the time to go back, but that never happens.