69 replies to this topic

[DaveC]

The thing is frame dumps should look exactly the same on pandora's LCD as they look on your (assumingly calibrated) monitor, as (mostly) the same data is sent sent to pandora's LCD and your PC monitor when you view those images. The fact that it looks darker on pandora's LCD means it's gamma is miscalibrated.

I don't really think so, gamma is still wrong on the low side at least.

Even the frame dumps have crushed shadow detail though. It is not like those look good, they aren't much better than on the Pandora. Every LCD has slightly different characteristics. Again look at that exact CV screen on the Pandora and tell me if it looks pretty close to that pic I posted, mine does.

Well if the global LCD gamma is wrong then howcome all other emus like SNES, MAME etc look OK ? If the main LCD gamma was wrong EVERYTHING would look wrong not just Picodrive. It is also a linear ramp, to make Picodrive look right I would need to go from total black to medium right away which is wrong for everything else.

[notaz]

Even the frame dumps have crushed shadow detail though. It is not like those look good, they aren't much better than on the Pandora. Every LCD has slightly different characteristics. Again look at that exact CV screen on the Pandora and tell me if it looks pretty close to that pic I posted, mine does.

Mine doesn't (using default LCD gamma that came from you, brightness set a bit below brightest, like you mentioned). Maybe yours has one of those low-grade prototype LCDs? There have been at least 3 different types of LCDs used in prototype units, do you also get screen corruption while pandora boots (a sign of low quality LCD)? Can't imagine how it doesn't affect other programs though.

[oskarzer0]

Notaz, thank you for this incredible emulator. I love you!!!




P.D.: WOW! The Notaz´s Pandora have more brightness than mine.
My LCD Pandora is more dark. Is possible add the old "Gamma Correction" Option??
Thanks!

[notaz]

What about the old "Gamma correction" and A_SN's gamma curve options?

Those were done by GP2X video hardware with no performance hit. Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora will get a performance hit for this option though, but I guess it is not that important.

P.D.: WOW! The Notaz´s Pandora have more brightness than mine.
My LCD Pandora is more dark. Is possible add the old "Gamma Correction" Option??
Thanks!

The photo is a bit overexposed, it's darker in reality but still much brighter than what DaveC shows us.

[DaveC]

Even the frame dumps have crushed shadow detail though. It is not like those look good, they aren't much better than on the Pandora. Every LCD has slightly different characteristics. Again look at that exact CV screen on the Pandora and tell me if it looks pretty close to that pic I posted, mine does.

Mine doesn't (using default LCD gamma that came from you, brightness set a bit below brightest, like you mentioned). Maybe yours has one of those low-grade prototype LCDs? There have been at least 3 different types of LCDs used in prototype units, do you also get screen corruption while pandora boots (a sign of low quality LCD)? Can't imagine how it doesn't affect other programs though.

I took a picture of mine with a camera and it pretty much looks the same as yours. The thing is the camera picture brightens everything quite a bit. That is why I didn't post my image as it doesn't show it right. I don't know if I have the crap LCD or not but I don't get corruption that I notice.

You are telling me you don't see (using the brown colors on the rocks) that the brown falls off allot? Or the foreground has those two stark bands? You did that screen capture from the TV card are you telling me that your pandora screen looks almost like that or even semi close to that? This emu delivers the darkest gamma for shadow detail I have ever seen on a MegaDrive emu, are you saying you think this is closer to a real Megadrive than all others?

Those were done by GP2X video hardware with no performance hit. Wiz/Caanoo/Pandora will get a performance hit for this option though, but I guess it is not that important.

The photo is a bit overexposed, it's darker in reality but still much brighter than what DaveC shows us.

Couldn't the emu just read a custom gamma from the OS (called MegaDrive or something), use that for the emu, then revert to what it was before on exit? There would be no hit for that would there?

Edited by DaveC, 23 September 2010 - 04:37 AM.

[notaz]

You are telling me you don't see (using the brown colors on the rocks) that the brown falls off allot? Or the foreground has those two stark bands?

It does but not an awful lot.

You did that screen capture from the TV card are you telling me that your pandora screen looks almost like that or even semi close to that? This emu delivers the darkest gamma for shadow detail I have ever seen on a MegaDrive emu, are you saying you think this is closer to a real Megadrive than all others?

No I'm not saying that. PC emus are also rather far off that capture though.

Couldn't the emu just read a custom gamma from the OS (called MegaDrive or something), use that for the emu, then revert to what it was before on exit? There would be no hit for that would there?

It could but I'm tired of doing platform specific options like that, it will do nothing to help Caanoo, PSP or say next GPH handheld, I'd much better go for some generic solution.

[geise69]

Notaz, I don't mean to derail all the LCD talk but this caught my curiosity a couple weeks ago. I was just curious if you knew about this and if it was already implemented in Picodrive? If not, would it be a big performance hit? The sound emulation in Picodrive is great and I'm not saying it needs changing cause it's very nice to me. I was just curious. Forgive me if you've known about this for the past couple years I just thought it was interesting.

Edited by geise69, 23 September 2010 - 01:10 PM.

[notaz]

Notaz, I don't mean to derail all the LCD talk but this caught my curiosity a couple weeks ago. I was just curious if you knew about this and if it was already implemented in Picodrive? If not, would it be a big performance hit? The sound emulation in Picodrive is great and I'm not saying it needs changing cause it's very nice to me. I was just curious. Forgive me if you've known about this for the past couple years I just thought it was interesting.

Yeah I am following this, some things from there are implemented, some are not (yet).

[fusion_power]

Uh, interesting discussions here but IMHO I recommend to let notaz his peace and don't treat him with all this Picture-Quality Stuff.
I love PicoDrive but I guess at the Moment there are much more important things to do for the Pandora (New Kernel). So I think we should let notaz his power so he can make the really important stuff for the Pandora instead of tweaking some minor brightnes and Gamma settings.

[Swiss_Cheeseman]

I think that questions about the accuracy of the colours makes for perfectly reasonable discussion. From what I see of the screen caps the colour is pretty off and although it may never be "perfect" due to the analogue nature of the Genesis' video, it is entirely reasonable to get as close to it as possible.

Has anyone talked to Steve Snake? He seems to know more about Genesis hardware than anyone. Using the RF/Composite filters in Kega Fusion gives a very accurate reproduction of a Genesis' video output. I think Genesis Plus on the Wii has something similar so maybe nick the code from that (provided the licenses are compatible)? Both filters emulate the horizontal pixel blurring effect that the Genesis' video encoder has as well. It's a handy feature to have since many games take advantage of it to squeeze out some extra colour information and provide cheap translucency tricks (the glass crushers in Sonic The Hedgehog's Marble Zone for example).

Going a bit off topic; the frequent posts from people saying how we should shut up and not give suggestions, bug reports and complaints about software from the developers here is pretty annoying, please stop. I fully understand that they are doing it as a hobby and aren't getting paid for their work (for the most part anyway, I donated to a few back in the day) but when I contribute to an open project I welcome advice and suggestions about my work and I'd like to think that most of the people here do too. To put it rather crudely and lacking any tact or subtlety whatsoever: stop sucking their cocks.

Edited by Swiss_Cheeseman, 27 September 2010 - 07:05 AM.

[jonlad1]

I tried Castlevania earlier and got up to the point specifically what DaveC was talking about and mine looked fine - i.e. all shades of the rocks were visible.

Not trying to "suck anyones cock", just advising what I saw.


To take this thread off the gamma/brightness issue - I would love for the jap mega cd issue to be fixed in the next release. Also 32X CD game support would be the schiznit too, Notaz has done enough for now though.

Edited by jonlad1, 27 September 2010 - 02:19 PM.

[DaveC]

I tried Castlevania earlier and got up to the point specifically what DaveC was talking about and mine looked fine - i.e. all shades of the rocks were visible.

They are "visible" just way too dark. There seems to be a bias in the curve toward darker shades and at the other end for brighter shades. Of all of the MegaDrive emus I have seen (even previous PicoDrive versions) the shadow detail is the most crushed in Picodrive 1.80. This is made even worse by the Pandora's handling of darker colors while scrolling. If both situations were "wrong" I would rather see a bit brighter wrong shadow detail than too dark wrong(although pure black should still be black, not gray). Now there may be situations of variability in LCD quality from batch to batch or variability in perception (there are people that can't tell the difference between a Blu-Ray and VHS tape), variability of backlight brightness/settings to the fact that many people may not notice or care. That is the reason bhind having some sort of setting.

Edited by DaveC, 28 September 2010 - 02:35 AM.

[Esn]

Sorry for bumping this, but I just wanted to say that I've been playing Ecco CD for the past few days (finally playable because of the Pandora's great d-pad) and this emulator is awesome. I tried a number of 32X games too, and most of them run pretty well.

Ecco CD runs fullspeed at 500Mhz, although sometimes the bottom third of the display will start scrolling non-smoothly. It doesn't bother me too much, but I thought I'd mention it (I'm guessing a higher clockspeed will fix it EDIT: yep, it did).

Master System doesn't seem to work for me (I tested Aladdin and Road Rash). Maybe because they're zipped? It already works fine with Dega though, so that's okay.

Wonderful work, notaz!

EDIT: Also, Space Harrier on the 32x is awesome.

Music on Sonic CD plays through only once - it doesn't repeat. Is this a bug, or a faulty ROM?

Edited by Esn, 01 February 2011 - 04:00 AM.

[Esn]

In Ristar, in the first level, there's a colour in the background that shows up only when I'm moving, and disappears when I'm standing still.

Some 32X games don't work. On the other hand, the polygonal space shooters Darxide and Stellar Assault work, which is pretty impressive.

P.S. In Sonic CD, the music does restart again later, it just takes a really long time (I'm not sure if it was like that originally).

[jonlad1]

Sonic CD is like that with me.

I think just the access times on the cd take ages to get to the next track. It seems there are quite a few different tracks used on one level.

Notaz said that there will be issues with quite a few 32x games as he only just (at time of release) implemented it. It works awesome already though.

You played batman returns on sega/mega cd? Awesome.