85 replies to this topic

[Dunny]

Yeah, RenegadeChic, this place also used to be spam-free. I'd like to move all my FMN discussion and such over here where Craig can't get to it but unfortunately now that GPH has given up the ghost (and so, it appears, has the community surrounding it) these forums are getting more and more desolate.

I agree that it would appear that Craig has indeed given up only the title of an administrator, and kept all the actual real power. That's very worrying - he's always behaved like a little twat as far as communicating with his customers is concerned, and it seems that he's now becoming something of a nasty dictator. I'd really like to just drop the official boards completely, but there's no real alternative Pandora community.

D.

[Miner49er]

Fair enough.

I'm not angry either. Just mildy irritated at what _appears_ to be deception (only _appears_ - there may be actual honest reasons for everything).

I would never go as far as direct insults though - life is too short for getting petty. It's only a console...it's only money and we all knew this was a project with a fair amount of risk involved.

Roll on the new year and perhaps I can finally be with my precious Pandora!

[quartercast]

Kim Jong Il wouldn't have bothered with CC or GC, he would have used forced labour from concentration camps. It would be called the People's Pandora, and instead of finding bits of tobacco inside you would find the odd human tooth or a blood stain.

[RenegadeChic]

Yeah, RenegadeChic, this place also used to be spam-free. I'd like to move all my FMN discussion and such over here where Craig can't get to it but unfortunately now that GPH has given up the ghost (and so, it appears, has the community surrounding it) these forums are getting more and more desolate.

lol shouting in an empty room isn't nearly as satisfying! really though it is definitely a shame. emulation on phones has gotten to the point where making a straight up emulation console isn't a very profitable venture. the only reason the pandora scrapes by is because it manages to do something a little bit different. its probably too late for this place to snap up a lot of phone emulation discussion and development, and i don't know if its the direction most devs would want to go in anyway. dragging in the audience is always gonna be the bigger problem

[Dunny]

Fair enough.

I'm not angry either. Just mildy irritated at what _appears_ to be deception (only _appears_ - there may be actual honest reasons for everything).

I would never go as far as direct insults though - life is too short for getting petty. It's only a console...it's only money and we all knew this was a project with a fair amount of risk involved.

Roll on the new year and perhaps I can finally be with my precious Pandora!

It's not so much what Mr. Depths has done - I quite like the guy and I count him as a friend on other forums - it's the fact that Craig, while masquerading as a regular user on the forums (and having sworn blind that he would have no moderator or administrator powers) then goes and bans the guy and locks the discussion. If he's deceitful enough (and we know from bitter experience that he will twist the truth to suit him) to do that, then I don't trust him on the boards. I really don't. Heh, I expect he might read this and decide to ban me for my behaviour on other forums - that would be pretty much par for the course!

Yeah, RenegadeChic, this place also used to be spam-free. I'd like to move all my FMN discussion and such over here where Craig can't get to it but unfortunately now that GPH has given up the ghost (and so, it appears, has the community surrounding it) these forums are getting more and more desolate.

lol shouting in an empty room isn't nearly as satisfying! really though it is definitely a shame. emulation on phones has gotten to the point where making a straight up emulation console isn't a very profitable venture. the only reason the pandora scrapes by is because it manages to do something a little bit different. its probably too late for this place to snap up a lot of phone emulation discussion and development, and i don't know if its the direction most devs would want to go in anyway. dragging in the audience is always gonna be the bigger problem

You're right about the Pandora being slightly different, and I don't blame GPH for giving up. It was bound to happen. I get the feeling that although the Pandora excels most at gaming, they're going to have to push the "handheld desktop PC" angle to keep interest up. Even then, I don't see the fanbase growing any larger than the GP2X at best.

D.

[WizardStan]

Yeah, RenegadeChic, this place also used to be spam-free.

I'm doing my best.
The license for the forum expires in January, at which point I believe there's a plan to buy a new one, one which will have better spam control, but that's entirely up to ED.

[RenegadeChic]

Even then, I don't see the fanbase growing any larger than the GP2X at best.

i dont see it ever being the pinnacle of tech desire for sure but i think that this or a slightly more powerful version has some serious real world potential as a portable productivity device. if it could break into a more corporate line with the right software it could be really successful however its most likely to end up with standalone hobbyists who will find private and custom uses for the device, which is a shame. i mean there would be little to prevent a printer technician using the pandora as a diagnostic device to take around rather than a full laptop. i dont see much use for it in a medical environment as its not the easiest device to keep clean compared to a tablet. there are also the as yet unexplored music creation angles which could potentially be amazing.

but yeah, its hard to see it achieving something more corporate as companies are more likely to go with what they know which would be laptops with windows. then there is how to get the software they want or need on there and finally... i actually dont think the case is high quality enough to sell on that level.

so yeah, i think you are right, though i would be pretty happy for gp2x level!

[Exophase]

you called someone a prick and threatened to "pay him a visit" in what basically counts as his place of work and you are surprised? if this had been in person you would have had the police called on you, being made to go away hardly compares. anyway, its pretty obvious now that Craig has essentially nothing to do with pandora production any more, so i can assume people just enjoying having a whipping boy to deal with their ever so tragic problems

You're going entirely on his side of the story. You don't know what, if anything, was said to instigate this. And of course it's different if someone says they'll "visit" you online when they have no idea what your address is and obviously don't mean it.

To me it all comes down to this: for whatever the exchange was between UD and Craig, would he have still been banned if that exchange took place between him and someone else? Because I really, really doubt it. Admins are there for the benefit of everyone else, not to be elevated to special status where they get to dish out personal retribution to people who slight them. And no, I don't think being part of OPT should elevate him to that status either. He's just a shitty admin, and he's not even willing to display that he is one, further diminishing whatever responsibility and accountability he's perceived to be having.

[RenegadeChic]

You're going entirely on his side of the story. You don't know what, if anything, was said to instigate this. And of course it's different if someone says they'll "visit" you online when they have no idea what your address is and obviously don't mean it.

I presumed that based on the comment UD made on here, whatever was said was likely accurately represented by Craig.

To me it all comes down to this: for whatever the exchange was between UD and Craig, would he have still been banned if that exchange took place between him and someone else? Because I really, really doubt it. Admins are there for the benefit of everyone else, not to be elevated to special status where they get to dish out personal retribution to people who slight them. And no, I don't think being part of OPT should elevate him to that status either. He's just a shitty admin, and he's not even willing to display that he is one, further diminishing whatever responsibility and accountability he's perceived to be having.

I only think this really stands if it is an online community like this forum. This forum is supposed to be managed by people who allow fair debate and freedom of speech etc, but the OpenPandora forums are there for their products and any community conversation is entertained to provide a controlled outlet if needed. There is really no requirement for Craig to stick to any rules that may apply here over there. Do I like it? It really depends whats being removed. Would I remove personal insults and menacing comments from my companies forum? Hell yes, I actually wouldn't allow any personal bitching about me at all both because I didn't like it but also because its really damaging to the project. No matter what a person's relationship is with a company, it is moronic to allow someone to flame to pieces and diminish your character for all to see. I think many cancellations and lots of bad karma has been caused from the days on here where people were just allowed to either destructively speculate or just rant about whatever promises they believed were broken. Any other big company would either do the same or simply wouldn't allow a vehicle for that kind of thing in the first place. We can all think of people with nothing good to say about the pandora or about Craig, but does that mean they should be free to say whatever on the OpenPandora forums?

Honestly, I do understand where you are coming from, but I really think they can do what they want on their forums, and they are all pretty justified in doing it really. All manufacturer forums are basically a totalitarian state and for their own products sake they should be. People play good mod bad mod, but what difference does it make ultimately? How would ED deal with people harassing him and his own character as frequently as people do Craig? Differently perhaps, but I would think him justified in taking any action he wanted to take.

[Exophase]

This isn't about whether or not they "can" do what they do what they want, this is about whether or not I think they're being assholes in the process. I'm not going to compare the forums to those of "any other company" because those don't have the company heads going on and taking everything personally while saying insulting things themselves. They tend to be governed by a consistent set of well defined rules enforced by some appointed party.

Like it or not those forums HAVE taken a lot of activity from these and it's a crying shame if they're compromised just because it's decided that they serve some other purpose, when the reality is that they only came into prominence due to Craig having a schism with these forums. Some guy calling Craig names on the forums isn't damaging to their product at all. For one thing I'd claim that Pandora's internet popularity is all but irrelevant so long as they're struggling to fulfill current demand, much less needing to generate new demand. But even if this matters, companies don't look bad when isolated individuals are being unreasonable to them. Instead they look bad when they go on personally fueled kicks like Craig does, and when they govern the forum that you claim represents them with inconsistent policies and shady practices.

[Unfathomable Depths]

you called someone a prick and threatened to "pay him a visit" in what basically counts as his place of work and you are surprised? if this had been in person you would have had the police called on you, being made to go away hardly compares. anyway, its pretty obvious now that Craig has essentially nothing to do with pandora production any more, so i can assume people just enjoying having a whipping boy to deal with their ever so tragic problems

hehehe - forum drama eh?

I said, in reply to his comment in the Kim Jong Il thread where he wanted Mugabe dead for Christmas, 'And pricks who waste peoples time and money can GTFO too' or something very similar. As a kind of jibe/joke.

What happened was 2 months ago I requested an update on my RMA. Nothing.
I then asked ED if he was doing my RMA. He PM'ed me to say he wasn't sure (I couldn't remember my Pandora log in) and he would ask Jacqueline.
Later on that day (within a couple of hours) I made the jibe and got banned.
I then made this thread.
*edit* I then emailed openpandoraorders@gmail.com asking for an update.
Minutes after that I got an email offering me a refund (which I accepted but as the bank a/c that was used to pay for the Pandora was closed and could I have a cheque)

I made no 'veiled threats'. In this thread I said ' I'm in Newcastle in the New Year so I'll pop round for my Pandora personally ' because as I see it criag either owes me a refund (which his office suggested, I didn't request it) or a repaired Pandora.

I think I'll take some advice from Trading Standards on this, there is an office in my town.
I'll report back with their advice.

Edited by Unfathomable Depths, 22 December 2011 - 08:07 PM.

[FaeMinx]

Spoiler

hey i am not angry at all, was just saying

not that i think that they are massively comparable as people but i think you could compare it to the difference between having a go at an apple sales rep or having a go at steve jobs. sure the customer is always right if you are some sales rep and sales and you are practically as irrelevant as the customer but if you managed to come face to face with steve jobs (well not now obv) but you can be pretty sure he would probably tell you to piss off. sure you can berate those below you for poor customer service and causing you trouble, but if there is noone higher in the company to answer to, you can pretty much say what you want. is it good business? well, really the like it or lump it scenario applies. sure the pandora needs to have its orders, but it isn't exactly going to matter to them who it is on a personal level. hell, it would probably free up a pre-order in favour of a premium and benefit the company.

whats my point... hmm. well i guess ultimately Craig will do what he wants, people will be pushed away for getting aggressive and none of it will really matter. the angry people will try and win internet points, they wont get anything any time faster (apart from angrier) and it wont change anything. ED is already in control of things and from what i can tell, other than passing on order information and parts, there is no amount of raging at Craig that could possibly benefit anyone. at this stage, getting mad is only going to diminish a project you probably want to be a part of and if you don't then really people shouldn't have any time for your stirring.

since when was successfully trollbaiting something to be proud of? he bit and now you're banned *clapclapclap*? yawn. its a shame this forum spends more time being bitchy than positive since i seem to remember is being a really great, creative and enjoyable place not so long ago.

Hear hear!

[WizardStan]

I think I'll take some advice from Trading Standards on this, there is an office in my town.
I'll report back with their advice.

They'll tell you that you are due either the thing you paid for or a refund. Since a refund has been offer the advice will probably be to take it.

Regarding the "visit" comment, I had a feeling that that's what he was referring to, which means the ban happened even before the "threat" (which I wouldn't actually consider a threat but I could understand and appreciate how someone a little paranoid might think so). So you were banned by Craig just for calling him a prick which, while certainly not a sign of an upstanding citizen, is hardly what I would call a banable offense. I've been called worse. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've been called worse by Craig.

[notaz]

And here we go again, a game of who has been called worse by Craig, even if you sink hundreds of hours for his cause, you still get to play. At least the influence is fading away.

[WizardStan]

Sorry, you're right. It was uncalled for.