Petition URL: http://www.petitiononline.com/gp2xstck/petition.html

There are few people who would be able to tell you with a straight face they had experienced issues with the GP2X's control stick. Some would say they found it to be an annoyance, while others would call it a major issue, and others, nearly unusable. The device is truly not designed for use in a gaming environment, as it exhibits precision that is poor at best, making many types of games very difficult to play, emulated or not. The most affected by this are likely fighting games where combos must be entered as very specific and perfect sequences of button pushes. The stick takes a very noticable amount of time to swing from one side to the other moving in any given direction; while a replacement cap like the MK2's or DaveC's cap greatly reduces the amount your thumb must move to produce these sudden movements, it is really not enough to allow proper quick, twitchy movements like those necessitated by difficult shooters (arcade titles spring most readily to mind) or twitch-reaction movements required in gameplay situations like Sonic 3's 3D special stages.

While it has become clear GPH did not fully recognize the amount of gaming that would be done on this machine, and seemed to be more convinced it would be used as a multimedia playback unit, this fault has made itself known very well, and hurts the reputation of the GP2X. It discourages new purchases for fear that the system won't be playable-- I know, I agonized over the purchase decision for a while! It stunts development-- I personally worry that when I release games for play on the GP2X that they will be too difficult to play with a stick and that only people who have done a tricky and labor/time-intensive modification to their unit (e.g. adding a D-Pad) will be able to enjoy them fully-- I will be installing a D-Pad as soon as a decent kit is available (e.g. Radek's) but I will have to make things much easier for everyone not using one due to the difficulties they might face. This greatly complicates the development process. A superior control mechanism would be nothing but beneficial for the development for and growth of the GP2X software community.

The three types of solution that spring most readily to mind are a directional pad (which could be of a non-patented design, dissimilar to Nintendo's-- note Sega, Sony, Nokia, and other companies' directional pads that do not step on Nintendo's toes). This is the most obvious solution.

The second is a microswitched stick similar to the mechanical design used in arcade systems, where small movements in multiple directions (even 16!) are precise, rapid, and require no large swing of the stick to accomplish for a great degree of control in free-roaming games like shooters or precise button-pushing exercises like entering complex combos into a fighting game.

The third would be a stick similar to that used in the GP32, a 'click-stick' as it is often called, resembling that of the Neo Geo Pocket Color, a rather famous method of control that worked quite well.

I have created this petition since after speaking to Craigix briefly about the probability of a more reasonable stick design in future revisions, he seemed to feel that the MK2 stick (which is just the MK1 stick rotated 45 degrees to relieve diagnol bias, which I never felt was the worst problem to begin with) was enough to make it 'fine'. I do not believe the true gravity of the situation is apparent to GBAX or GPH. The GP2X is an excellent handheld capable of incredible things, as we have all seen. It is made only more frustrating to see such a shortcoming as a control stick to ruin the experience for so many people. If you feel the way I do, and would like to see this change occur to benefit the users of the machine, the community, and future development for the growing GP2X platform, please sign this petition with your preferred method of control.

Thank you for your time.

Done

Done also...

Come on people move to action !

Done, too!

Feel exactly the same way. Done.

Let me tell you, I think the stick is just fine: I just wouldn't use it for fighting games at all. While if I wanted to I could probably play the fighting games just as good in the arcades (I've done 100% combos in the King of Fighters series =), I would be too scared to do so for fear of breaking the stick because I would have to use my fingers and not my thumb. I wouldn't say it is inaccurate and unusable: I would say it is just too delicate and the deadzone too big.

Shikaku - you have got to be kidding! Try playing any shoot'em up game on Mame and tell me you have the amount of control you need. This occurs on most games I've tried.

Signed also...

I play Noiz2sa, and my high score is 5353360 on endless insane stage (in the normal version). Play that, I dare you =)

I bet they won't bother changing the joystick anytime soon. GPH and Craigix are probably formulating a plan to release a better joystick/dpad in maybe 1-2 years. That way, more people will waste their money on a mediocre-control handheld. Then when the better version comes out, many people will replace theirs. That is how they will leech money from us.

Any no other companies do that ?

Oh is that a DS Lite sitting next to me ?!?!?

While some of the issues can be lessened a bit with programming trickery (resulting in Noiz2sa being a bit easier to control than a shooter in MAME or GNGeo2x), it's quite a hassle and the payoff usually isn't much more than just a small improvement. It really does put an undue burden on developers-- the input code for Stargazer needs adjustment all the time and I'm still not happy with how it works with a stick-- it doesn't seem to bother other people as much as me, but how can I judge how other people will experience a game if I can't tolerate my stick, or have to use a different self-installed control scheme than them?

...and if we just bought a GP2X?

I don't really mind the stick that much personally. It works well enough for me. A d-pad would be preferred, though (which is why I'm planning on buying Radek's mod) so I signed it anyway. Couldn't hurt.

edit: sorry, double post. Something is deeply wrong with my browser.

You love to get your hate speech into any topic you can. Really - I wouldn't mind buying a second GP2X, mind you it has MANY corrections (scanlines, joystick, build quality, screen hard-shell protector pre-installed, etc), mainly due to the fact that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I have no problems supporting GPH, and that I would love a better-developed version of the GP2X.

No handheld is perfect. Nintendo released the DS lite two years after launch... do you see anyone crying foul? But you automatically create some conspiracy theory (I use the term theory lightly, because your idea is not based on all the current facts of the time, and has not been proven to be plausible based on all the information available to you.) about how GPH is out to leech our money, and how they are so damned evil.

You know what - if you dislike the GP2X so much... why don't you leave. You sit here and insult the community, you insult the developers, you praise whatever you invested your money into, and you cannot fathom the fact that the console is a mere half a year old, and has a very good base of applications - whether or not it is emulators doesn't matter. There are quite a few good homebrew games that have been made, and you wouldn't know that - cause you don't own a GP2X, and haven't played them.

You state that the console sucks because it is all emulators. Well - first off, it is not all emulators. Secondly, I don't give two shits if you don't like them. It is only in your opinion that this console is bad, saying that it "is bad," would be an absolute statement, that you're in no position to make. Unless there is a majority of community that agrees with that idea, then you are the ignorant one.

You'll get no where if you preach what you don't know - and all too often you'll get called out for it. You've been proven an idiot time, and time again. Just shut the fuck up, get your fat ass up, and get some fresh air. Come back if you can actually consider both sides of the argument, or have a well educated, well informed response to share with us.

Because as of now, you're a trash-talking child, with no insight or experience relating to this topic other than what others have said.



Anywho - back to the topic. I am open to two options (the first that came to mind.)

A GP2X revision, with better quality components, and what not... fixing multiple problems.

An official replacement, where I would be more than happy to pay for the parts and labor of fixing/replacing the stick.

...and then there is the fabulous idea of doing it myself with Radek's soon to be kit?

Anyway, the stick isn't horrible in my mind, but I cannot say no to a new one!

edit: double post.

I find the stick absolutely fine. I can pull off Dragon Punches easily in SF2, and have blasted through much of Gradius on hu6280, and 1943 on MAME. Guess I just have a higher tolerance? Distinct possibility. All those years of squishy Atari joysticks on my c64...

Are the people on this thread using the MK1 stick? Maybe the rotation fixes things more than you think? The dead zone can be a bother, but when actually playing a game I hardly notice it.

However, for the good of those who have problems, I've signed the petition. I probably wouldn't want a D-pad, but if they can make a stick much the same but with a slightly smaller deadzone, I'm all for it.

Tell you what, I could have a go at putting the microswitched HAT off of a CH Flightstick Pro in there, I will use Radek's controller circuit to adapt the 4-way to an 8-way logical output.

Or you could, or you could commision an engineer, or ask someone knowledgeable about hooking up the darn thing.

I suppose I could design a microswitched controller with as few as ~3 or 4 parts and the stick the only moving part.

The material could be plastic, nylon, aluminum (or aluminium), Steel, etc, the part that holds the switches can be milled easily and the stick made on a lathe without problem.

This would solve so many problems at once, the shaft and cap can be one piece and go very close to the face of the GP2X or be just a Nub with a grippy pattern because unlike the current stick we are just pressing a microswitch (or two for diagonols) so a mini nub would be AWESOME.

This microswitched Idea is great because of the precision of having the stick ride directly on a high-quality microswitch.

I am going to pull out my Mouser catalog and see what they have in micro microswitches.



Take out your stick, dis-assemble it and shim it a bit, deadzone is smaller.

By the way, how's the XGP Kids' control stick working for you? OH, that's right, it wont be out for a couple more years, to go with all the homebrew and original.... OH, that's right, there's only the development kit for it. Who knows, you could design pong for yourself. Then you could play with yourself in a whole new way.


On topic, I am signing also.

Microswitches aren't all that great either. They have this large "go no-go" zone. Different than a dead zone. It is when you press the switch and the spring flips to make contact, then to let off you need to travel alot of distance until the spring lets loose again. This can lead to imprecision as the band when it is making contact is large.

The BEST solution is a regular old d-pad. It is cheap too as it would use the same type of membrane setup that the volume and face buttons already use. So all GPH would need to do would be change the circuit board, mold a d-pad, and add the membranes. In the long run the parts would actually be cheaper than that stick that is used now.

So if GPH manages to change the joystick to something else, would you have to buy a whole new system for the change, or is there a possibility that they might offer a service for previous owners?

To all those that are willing to buy another GP2X just for an improved joystick (Crazy Goat), you must not realize that it's a wasteful buy. THE PROBLEMS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. The DS Lite is an improvement, it isn't a fix. You won't be able to do better in games if you get it. GPH IS evil for making many people disappointed when they bought their GP2X. I wonder how those masses of people must have felt when their joystick sucked, the headphone jack fell off, they somehow bricked their unit, etc. They would first feel disappointment, and also wonder for why GPH would even release a handheld before they even get a chance to test it themselves.

In other words, please stop posting. Sit in the corner please, and think about what you have typed.

I'm sorry let me rephrase that: a POOR (broken) joystick.

I say we ban him.

I say we tar and feather him.

I find the MK2 stick fixes the issues for me, it isn't just rotated it also has the deadzone reduced.

I can now play Battle Squadron as well as i can on the real MD.

If you have an MK1 stick you should try the MK2 before saying GPH need to redesign the board (there isn't enough money to do that and as i've said - the Dpad is patented, it can't be used)

There is no doubt that there is some slight problems with the GP2X stick and certain games are quite impossible to play. I dont, however, see what a petition is going to do.

I think that GPH would love to update the stick, and most likely will in the next of the GP console itterations (perhaps GPZ ). Anyways, I don't think that a service option for current customers is a viable or affordable option for GPH to undertake.

I think alot of people have to realise that the MK1 GP2X's were not the commercial releases of the console. GPH never stated that the MK1 was anything but a pre-release version (as far as I know), so all early adopters should have been well aware of the possability of shortfalls with the GP2X MK1.

I for one am looking into a joystick replacement kit. If only somone could point me in the right direction? (are they even available yet?)

In short if you own an MK1, tough it out... you knew what you were getting into.

NOTE: I have not played an MK2, so I am not sure of the upgraded sticks quality. It could, for all I know, be worse...

NO DPAD!!!! PLEAASSSSSSSSSSSEEE!!!

I am an old guys, born in the Atari generation and I am use to that REAL JOYSTICK ;-). I have played so many ages on my C=64 with a classic BOSS joystick then with an EPYX one. My first handheld was a NEO GEO Pocket color which use the small thumb joystick and I have my GP32 beside me using a similar joystick (though I still prefer the one from the NEO GEO Pocket color). I dont have a GP2X yet though, but if they are a joystick change then I wouldnt mind to have the GP32 one or something like the NEO GEO Pocket Color. But no DPAD, even on my PS2 I usely use the analog thumb stick as much as possible ;-) (well when the games allows it or that it can be reconfigured to do so). I guess I was never use to do the NES dpad since I was used with previous joystick generation ;-).

I know I am old and aint easy to relearn something that become instinct hehehe! Moving a stick around pressing a button.

Fixed some typo

Read the fucking post for Christ's sake.





You do not even have a GP2X, you do not know how good, or bad the joystick is. Thus, you shouldn't be commenting on this. Since there are some people who don't mind it, and some people do, you really do not have any reasoning for favoring one side of the argument of the other. Your opinion is based on what others have said... and you negate to recognize the comments of those who believe that the stick is fine, and that Craig says the MKII revision is much better than the original.

No product can be perfect. Just like you cannot write a paper a first time, and call it a final draft. You take steps - they obviously had one reason or another to release the product, and it is good enough for me... though it is unfortunate that some people do not like it.

I know, no product is perfect. But when the GP2X was released, it was FAR from perfect. Aren't you a little mad that they made a new version of the GP2X not to make improvements but to FIX problems? It doesn't matter if I don't have a GP2X. I've seen countless people saying the joystick is "decent", "stiff", "inprecise", etc.

The stick (on my MK2) took a little getting used to, but the GP32's microswitches did too (though I do prefer the microswitches overall). It works fine now, and I don't have any control issue. Maybe it helps that I don't like fighting games though... not sure. Still, I very much prefer the GP2X's stick to most d-pads (with maybe the exception of the GB micro's).

But I believe it's unreasonable to think that the GP2X could be redesigned that dramatically at this point. Then again, they are the company that released a BLU+ with an extremely uncompatible LCD.



And JaqMs, I think I speak for everyone when I say go away. You're changing nobody's mind; you're merely irritating us. And I understand you have a GP32, so maybe you should just stay on that part of the forum, if you really want to stick around. Thanks.

The MK1 was never sold as a pre release. Despite that , it is more of an early adopters curse more then anything. I have now gotten use to the stick and can hit any '4 way' or diagonal when I want to.

I have no problems with the stick, for any type of game, shooter, fighter, platform. It feels analog, I like that (don't like hyperactive microswitches). I think it's all a matter of what a person is used to. The OP possibly has grown accustomed to the twitchyness of microswitches. That doesn't affect everyone though. No signing here.

Hmm... perhaps we need more options, especially for the early adopters who did stay loyal, even through the firmware difficulties, and even the OPTION of having an alternative available for those who want or need one. I myself would like something a bit more usable... Not that I don't still play it a lot, but I would be willing to send the 2X somewhere if it were to come back with a new control.

And everyone please ignore JaqAss, he's wasting time waiting for the XGP Kids which probably wont ever be released.

Due to GPH's limited resources, if they changed anything it'd probably be a good bit into the future (at least 6 months, look how long MK2 took) and I doubt they'd be able to afford 2 simultaneous, different production runs ...

(that's also why I don't think GP will be producing multiple XGP units, but that's an argument for another forum)

I'd love to be able to send in my GP2X to someone, officially or unofficially, to have a D-Pad or new stick installed-- but it'd have to be available to most of the community easily and relatively inexpensively so it could become a common procedure .. dare I say nearly as common as installing a DaveC cap. Because most of the reason behind my adamance on the issue isn't for my own benefit; I know I can install a D-pad from a gamecube controller or a broken GBA (the GP2X feels just like my old black GBA anyway, it'd be a great fit) or get one of Radek's d-pad kits when they are made available, but I need to be able to know that my software runs well on most people's machine control-wise-- so I'd need to tailor it toward the most common stick replacement method. Something made standard from GPH themselves is the ideal solution as it forces a standard on everyone rather than leaving it open to multiple incompatible options.

In Spain the MK2 Pad is for sell for 1€. I tried to contact to GBAX for this same offer, but they say basically: "buy the craigx pad if you want another one".


Do you know GPH said that that pad should be nearly free for all of us? (Like in spain or Germany) Check the german website or gp32spain. Thay have it for 0.99E...

I think here the objetive is not the scene, is the leeching2x. It is a bit sad isint it?

Lik-sang sell them too, but they offer no advantage over the GBAx pads. GBAx are selling them at cost price, so there can be no complaints.

Back on topic.. I'm all in favour of wonderful new control-pads for our GP2Xs, but is it really going to happen? As has been said, GPH can't afford to re-design the system to accommodate a new controller, so it's likely that a precise thumbstick/d-pad will be on the next handheld they bring out rather than on the GP2X. With regards to the petition, I'm concerned that it'll scare off potential GP2X buyers: without sales on the current GPH handheld, there won't be a next one.

Do the world a favour and shoot yourself.

I second that, unless he sticks to the GP32 and XGP sections of the board

Im getting the impression JagMs is just a hater because 1. He has no GP2X and probably can't afford to get one? (who knows), 2. Sees so many people here enjoying their GP2X and 3. Is a jealous piece of shit and wants to try and put doubt in peoples minds.

Quite concise if I do say so myself

Troll or not, the stick still sucks.

Signed.

I think a d-pad lends itself to portable devices more than a joystick because they're less likely to break off (the number of times I've popped my cap [teehee] off when putting it in my pocket), and small joysticks (like the current one) don't feel quite so strong as a full sized.
Obviously, that last one's a no-brainer, but I am worried about getting too enthusiastic in some games and just breaking it off.

Personally, I don't think the current one is a failure - it works fine for the games I play - but a proper 8-way d-pad (not a four-way with the diagonals simulated) would be very welcome (even as an option/mod).

Having bought my son a Mk2 a couple of weeks ago (from gp2x.co.uk); during my ('ahem') testing whilst getting the SD cards setup, I found no problem with the stick. Did notice there is another stick inside the box with (I think) text on it "GP2X"? - but haven't bothered changing to use it..

Maybe the stick (un)popularity is dependant on what games you tend to play?

As a side not - his Mk2 had a sheet of film on it (slightly larger than the screen) - I take it this was just for packing(?). I have seen many discussions on the screen protection, but can't see any other film on the screen - I guess it's there though and I can chuck the packing film...?

And another note - looks to me (during the _very_ short time I have been on these boards) that JagMS is indeed some form of troll.. Why does someone frequent a forum concerning something he doesn't own? If indeed he has a GP32, I would think he should be spending more time on that area of the board unless he's asking questions with the mind to purchase a 2x..
(Never mind, I find it amusing reading all the responses to his posts )

Kev

I cannot stay in the GP32 forum because so many idiots post GP2X threads in it :/

But you like gp2x threads...?

JaqMs just likes attension. Don't respond to any of his nonsense.

And, of course, it's important for you to comment on everything incase we never find out your opinion on the matter.

Edit: Hang on... your comment doesn't even make any sense

Go figure